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Old 06-29-2011, 08:03 AM   #916
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And what of Americans with the where-did-they-come-up-with-a-crazy-notion-like-that belief that marriage is a union of one man and one woman?
They are people too.

What silly prejudices did you have in mind? Acknowledging that they are against gay marriage and believing they are wrong about that hardly constitutes as silly prejudice. Even suggesting that they are being discriminatory or hateful doesn't qualify as silly prejudice. After all, no one is taking away their rights.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:16 AM   #917
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And what of Americans with the where-did-they-come-up-with-a-crazy-notion-like-that belief that marriage is a union of one man and one woman? Any silly prejudices exist about them?
They're welcome to adhere to that belief inside the boundaries of their own religious denomination

That's the great thing about America, Indy.

Now if you will excuse the rest of us not hogtied to a particular faith, it's time to get back to the public buggery and men grinding other men in public in front of your kids at public swimming pools and throwing free condoms at grandmas on park benches.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:46 PM   #918
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"What you saw was the people of New York having a debate, talking through these issues. It was contentious, it was emotional, but ultimately they made a decision to recognize civil marriages. And I think that's exactly how things should work."
So the president agrees with Indy, the process IS important. Now I don't believe him for a second because instead of reversing DOMA by the same process by which it became law, legislation. The president deems it "unconstitutional" (knowing he would lose) and his Justice Dept will no longer enforce it.

I, on the other hand, have been consistent and explanatory on this point. Regardless of whether you think same-sex marriage a civil right or not, it is important not to trample on clearly stated constitutional rights (free speech, freedom of religion) or the constitutional doctrine of separation of powers, to secure it.

Actually, considering what a phoney Barack Obama is regarding this entire issue I'm rather embarrassed to agree with him so often.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:57 PM   #919
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God forbid someone think that DOMA actually was unconstitutional.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:35 PM   #920
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Actually, considering what a phoney Barack Obama is regarding this entire issue I'm rather embarrassed to agree with him so often.
You're right on the head of the nail on this point (I know, WTF????????). Obama has had a very public, very lame, and very metric-driven "coming to terms about thinking about rethinking how he feels about gay marriage". I don't blame Barry for a lot of dumb shit that goes down in Washington, but this is one case where he is being embarrassing.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:49 PM   #921
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He doesn't want to stick his neck out on the issue and turn it into one more thing conservatives can point to and say "look how liberally socialist communist Marxist he is!" And that blows.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:45 AM   #922
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You're right on the head of the nail on this point (I know, WTF????????). Obama has had a very public, very lame, and very metric-driven "coming to terms about thinking about rethinking how he feels about gay marriage". I don't blame Barry for a lot of dumb shit that goes down in Washington, but this is one case where he is being embarrassing.
Yep.

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He doesn't want to stick his neck out on the issue and turn it into one more thing conservatives can point to and say "look how liberally socialist communist Marxist he is!" And that blows.
And yep.

I heard his press conference on NPR today and he refuses to explicitly state that he supports gay marriage. Clearly he feels hedging on the issue is a political necessity which I is both unfortunate and understandable.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:43 AM   #923
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I heard his press conference on NPR today and he refuses to explicitly state that he supports gay marriage. Clearly he feels hedging on the issue is a political necessity which I is both unfortunate and understandable.
Fingers crossed for a second term conversion.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:47 AM   #924
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Fingers crossed for a second term conversion.
To me all the haters already assume he supports gay marriage as part of his plot to destroy America. And the people who support Obama seem more likely to also support gay marriage. So I wonder if the pretense is really necessary.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:09 AM   #925
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I don't see how hedging on it is for political reasons, since poll after poll indicates that more and more people support it. Or just have no issue with it. Maybe it has more to do with his religion. I don't get how someone like him can't be in favor of gay marriage and still reconcile that with his religious beliefs and be able to articulate that. I don't know if he wrestles with it at all because of any religious beliefs (don't think so) or if it's other reasons.

Or is it because you're President you can't come out in support of gay marriage? Like that's still some sort of taboo?
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:15 AM   #926
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I don't see how hedging on it is for political reasons, since poll after poll indicates that more and more people support it. Or just have no issue with it. Maybe it has more to do with his religion. I don't get how someone like him can't be in favor of gay marriage and still reconcile that with his religious beliefs and be able to articulate that. I don't know if he wrestles with it at all because of any religious beliefs (don't think so) or if it's other reasons.

Or is it because you're President you can't come out in support of gay marriage? Like that's still some sort of taboo?
I really think it is 2012 calculating. He has proven that he does what he feels is right versus what he may believe (I think the U.S. military stuff bares that out.). Whether he personally believes gay marriage is right or not, I believe he knows it is the fair thing to allow to happen.

A majority in the U.S. may support or passively not care about gay marriage, but those aren't necessarily the ones who get out and vote.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:56 PM   #927
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Fingers crossed for a second term conversion.
Quite a profile in courage there.
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:11 AM   #928
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He could pull a Dick Cheney and wait until he leaves office.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:24 AM   #929
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Quite a profile in courage there.


you're right.

however.

i don't believe for a minute George W Bush actually wanted the "no fags allowed" amendment to the constitution he called for in 2003 after the MA supreme court ruling. nor do i think he cared one iota for the 2004 anti-gay amendments Rove got tacked onto the ballots beyond their political expediency.

you'll also note that most Republicans, especially Senators, have plenty of gay staffers and all are probably privately for same-sex marriage. just as they'd happily pay for abortions for their teenage daughters.

while Obama is certainly stringing the gay community along, it's the social conservative who really get played by the people they are supposed to be represented by
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:35 PM   #930
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Quinnipiac Poll: NY Catholics, Republicans Like Cuomo
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Almost two-thirds of New York voters reward Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo with a positive job approval rating after a legislative session that included an on-time budget with reduced spending, tightened ethics rules, a property tax cap, and passage of his bill to legalize same-sex marriage.

...[W]hite Catholic voters approve of the 53-year-old Cuomo by almost 3-to-1, or 62% to 22%, despite the Catholic Church’s staunch opposition to the gay marriage bill, which the Senate passed Friday and Cuomo signed shortly thereafter...Republicans also gave Cuomo positive marks, 53% to 26%. His approval among voters in his own party is a predictable 75-13%, while independents give him the nod at 61-19%, and voters in union households endorse his performance at 63-20%.

...Cuomo’s appeal among voters ran higher than several other first-term governors, Quinnipiac noted. New Jersey’s GOP Gov. Chris Christie had a 44% to 47% rating as of June 21; Florida’s Republican Gov. Rick Scott, 29% to 57% as of May 25; and Ohio’s Republican Gov. John Kasich, 38% to 49% as of May 18.
Sounds like most of NY's Catholics, at least, aren't nearly as worried as their appointed leaders about same-sex civil marriage trampling on their religious liberties.
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