the conservative case for same sex marriage - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-06-2010, 11:10 PM   #76
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,649
Local Time: 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post
Pac Mule wants to separate marriage from government. That's what I got from his post.
But what he doesn't understand or explain is how? When all those straight white conservatives get married in a church do they also have to get unioned by the government? Also what if the church does want to marry gay couples, what happens then?
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 03-06-2010, 11:14 PM   #77
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,862
Local Time: 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post
Pac Mule wants to separate marriage from government. That's what I got from his post.
Which is a cop out logically because we all know that's completely unrealistic.
__________________

__________________
PhilsFan is online now  
Old 03-06-2010, 11:58 PM   #78
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
Bullshit that there's nothing theocratic about it. The channel doesn't matter; it's not meant to be used to impose your religious views on others.
Given that all three of the major religions share negative views of homosexuality, exactly which theology is being imposed? Catholicism? Presbyterianism? Judaism? Mormonism? You can't have a pluralistic theocracy Philly.

But it's ok to "impose" secular values on people of faith right?
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 12:17 AM   #79
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,472
Local Time: 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Given that all three of the major religions share negative views of homosexuality, exactly which religion is being imposed? Catholicism? Presbyterianism? Judaism? Mormonism? You can't have a pluralistic theocracy Philly.

But it's ok to "impose" secular values on people of faith right?


secularism is the only thing that allows you to practice your religion as you see fit. it's that value that, yes, absolutely and in all cases trumps yours, because you only get freedom of, and from, religion through secularism.

also, i know many christians, jews, and muslims who would argue with you about what their faith actually thinks about homosexuality, and they'd present quite convincing arguments that whatever anti-gay rhetoric is employed by those institutions has much more to do with humans and their own personal failings rather than those of the divine.

do you, INDY, *actually* think that God doesn't like gay people?

and, moreover, you realize that it is only our secular constitution that allows you to think whatever you want about that question?
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 03-07-2010, 01:28 AM   #80
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,649
Local Time: 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post

But it's ok to "impose" secular values on people of faith right?
I know you won't answer me but I'll ask anyways...

How and where is a "secular value" imposed on people of faith?

So when I believe that all consenting adults are created equal, how does that effect your faith?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 03-07-2010, 01:38 AM   #81
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,862
Local Time: 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Given that all three of the major religions share negative views of homosexuality, exactly which theology is being imposed? Catholicism? Presbyterianism? Judaism? Mormonism? You can't have a pluralistic theocracy Philly.

But it's ok to "impose" secular values on people of faith right?
So, you're in favor of tyranny of the majority? Infringing upon the rights of minority groups because the majority says so?

Secularism doesn't impose. That's the nature of secularism. Secularism is not a religion; it has no hierarchy, no demographic, no membership. It's a concept, nothing more. That's why it's the best thing to rule, because it's not a club, a political party, a religion. It's just an idea. It's a collection of logic, nothing more, nothing less.
__________________
PhilsFan is online now  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:24 AM   #82
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
I know you won't answer me but I'll ask anyways...

How and where is a "secular value" imposed on people of faith?

So when I believe that all consenting adults are created equal, how does that effect your faith?
Abortion is a good example. The country woke up one fine morning in 1973 to find ending the lives of human fetuses was now legal. No public debate, no vote, just POW. And it remains an acrimonious issue to this day because it was imposed rather than legislated and has never enjoyed majority support.

But for the most part we don't impose laws in this country.

Since I answered you, what is an example of religious theocracy "imposed" on an unwilling citizenry in America?
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:29 AM   #83
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
So, you're in favor of tyranny of the majority? Infringing upon the rights of minority groups because the majority says so?
You mean like health care reconciliation?
Quote:
Secularism doesn't impose. That's the nature of secularism. Secularism is not a religion; it has no hierarchy, no demographic, no membership. It's a concept, nothing more. That's why it's the best thing to rule, because it's not a club, a political party, a religion. It's just an idea. It's a collection of logic, nothing more, nothing less.
You mean like the Communist Soviet Union?
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:54 AM   #84
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,649
Local Time: 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Abortion is a good example. The country woke up one fine morning in 1973 to find ending the lives of human fetuses was now legal. No public debate, no vote, just POW. And it remains an acrimonious issue to this day because it was imposed rather than legislated and has never enjoyed majority support.

But for the most part we don't impose laws in this country.

Since I answered you, what is an example of religious theocracy "imposed" on an unwilling citizenry in America?
Well besides not having your facts correct...

Abortion, not a strictly religious debate.

Gay marriage opposition is...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 03-07-2010, 08:32 AM   #85
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,862
Local Time: 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
You mean like health care reconciliation?


You mean like the Communist Soviet Union?
Apples to oranges.

Communists = political party.
__________________
PhilsFan is online now  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:28 AM   #86
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Given that all three of the major religions share negative views of homosexuality, exactly which theology is being imposed? Catholicism? Presbyterianism? Judaism? Mormonism? You can't have a pluralistic theocracy Philly.

But it's ok to "impose" secular values on people of faith right?
Monotheism for starters.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 12:00 PM   #87
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,706
Local Time: 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Abortion is a good example. The country woke up one fine morning in 1973 to find ending the lives of human fetuses was now legal.
Huh. I thought the country woke up one fine morning in 1973 to find that the government did not have control over women's reproductive systems.
__________________
corianderstem is online now  
Old 03-07-2010, 12:00 PM   #88
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 04:13 PM
Quote:
But what he doesn't understand or explain is how? When all those straight white conservatives get married in a church do they also have to get unioned by the government? Also what if the church does want to marry gay couples, what happens then?
Yes, what I was suggesting is that marriage ceremonies would no longer have any legal bearing, so if they want their benefits they would get unionized by the gov't. And if a church wants to marry gay couples, other churchs can't do anything about it.

Many people will argue against same-sex marriage because of "seperation of church and state," as they believe marriage is a purely religious ceremony. Obviously many members here argue against that. But if what I was saying came to pass, that argument goes out the door, and the only people that would make an argument against same-sex unions would be a few ultra-conservative homophobes. So everyone wins?

Quote:
Which is a cop out logically because we all know that's completely unrealistic.
I don't think so.
__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 12:35 PM   #89
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,332
Local Time: 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
So everyone wins?
Except those of us who like being married, not unionized for 20+ years.

Why is it that people will take away my marriage just so gays and lesbians can't do it?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 01:28 PM   #90
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 04:13 PM
Quote:
Except those of us who like being married, not unionized for 20+ years.

Why is it that people will take away my marriage just so gays and lesbians can't do it?
I see what you're saying, but you still are 'married,' if you went to a church and had your marriage ceremony as well.
__________________

__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proposition 8 discussion continued yolland Free Your Mind 797 03-03-2009 02:09 PM
SPLIT--> California's Proposition 8 on Same-Sex Marriage phillyfan26 Free Your Mind Archive 1002 11-08-2008 03:23 PM
Rate my album collection. shart1780 Lemonade Stand Archive 75 02-14-2008 12:07 AM
Go Home Human Shields, You U.S. Wankers... Iraqi Citizens topple main Saddam Statue Headache in a Suitcase Free Your Mind Archive 130 04-15-2003 08:48 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com