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Old 02-14-2011, 02:22 PM   #541
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so what kids are going to be better off:

those with a gay dad and a lesbian mom?
Well, they won't ever suffer the trauma of walking in on their parents doing it, so they've got that going for them.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:44 PM   #542
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There's no getting around the self-stunting sadness of faking enthusiasm at marrying someone you could never love just to please your parents. But to look at it optimistically, in their own way these "fake" marriages could be seen as a step forward--you still feel obliged to act like what your parents expect you to be, yet for the first time you're asserting some agency in that process by choosing someone you won't have to lie to for it. And it's a country where arranged marriage remains widespread enough to be normative (especially the modernized, choose-your-spouse-through-an-interview type, which is basically what this is), so there perhaps isn't quite the sense of insult-added-to-injury you or I might find in the coldly contractual nature of it.

Hard to perceive any hopeful progress in terms of what longterm message this level of deception sends to children, though.
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:26 PM   #543
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There's no getting around the self-stunting sadness of faking enthusiasm at marrying someone you could never love just to please your parents.


many parents would much rather the deception to the reality, and many parents actually encourage this as a preferable alternative than having to suffer the indignity of a gay child.

we had discussions about the paramount need to please one's parents in (stereo)typically Asian cultures -- this seems a logical extension of the Tiger Mom phenomenon. with hard work and practice, you can learn not to be too lesbian and perform the rote mechanics of heterosexuality enough to score, if not an A, at least a B+ on the exam.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:28 AM   #544
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If you're convinced homosexuality reflects a diseased mind or soul, I doubt you'd be able to properly support a gay child's maturation into adulthood no matter which parenting model you followed. Parenting isn't brainwashing, but it's not a revolutionary arena either; basically you have to raise kids who can function well within the surrounding culture and society, and that does impose certain limitations. At least in our (mainstream) culture it's possible as a last resort to cut yourself off from destructive parents, while still retaining the ability to look at yourself in the mirror afterwards. Elsewhere that may not be true.
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you can learn...to score, if not an A, at least a B+ on the exam
But that's basically what arranged marriage is, you know? I'm not trying to equivocate on there being hierarchies of advantage there, but by its very nature, it doesn't prioritize "what you really love to do."
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:02 AM   #545
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it doesn't prioritize "what you really love to do."

or who you really love.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:12 PM   #546
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But that's basically what arranged marriage is, you know?
historically (and factually speaking) that is the true traditional marriage
.
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Old 02-15-2011, 05:26 PM   #547
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Oh absolutely, I wasn't suggesting it was some weird aberration. It's 'love marriage' that's the newcomer historically.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:53 PM   #548
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Obama: DOMA Unconstitutional, DOJ Should Stop Defending In Court

a bold move
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:55 PM   #549
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President Obama has instructed the Justice Department to no longer defend the Constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, the legal prohibition on federal recognition of same-sex marriages.

Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement that the Department will stop defending the policy because it has now been challenged in the Second Circuit, "which has no established or binding standard for how laws concerning sexual orientation should be treated."

"After careful consideration, including a review of my recommendation, the President has concluded that given a number of factors, including a documented history of discrimination, classifications based on sexual orientation should be subject to a more heightened standard of scrutiny," he said. "The President has also concluded that Section 3 of DOMA, as applied to legally married same-sex couples, fails to meet that standard and is therefore unconstitutional. Given that conclusion, the President has instructed the Department not to defend the statute in such cases. I fully concur with the President's determination."

Holder said that despite the decision, his department will "remain parties to the cases and continue to represent the interests of the United States throughout the litigation." He added that members of Congress can still elect to defend the statute and that Justice will "work closely with the courts to ensure that Congress has a full and fair opportunity to participate in pending litigation."

Still, the reversal is a major victory for gay rights advocates. After a district judge ruled in July that DOMA is unconstitutional, Justice announced it would appeal the ruling, arguing it has an obligation to defend all federal laws. That angered the gay rights community, which was quick to note President Obama's campaign promise to repeal the policy.

The administration stood by its position despite the criticism, filing a brief in January defending DOMA. The brief argued that DOMA "is supported by an interest in maintaining the status quo and uniformity on the federal level, and preserving room for the development of policy in the states."

A 2009 Justice Department brief defending DOMA caused particular anger in the gay community, in part for referencing a case involving "marriage of uncle to niece" to support maintaining the policy.

The change in policy comes roughly two months after Mr. Obama signed a bill allowing for the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy to be ended, a moment he cast as a move toward equality for all Americans. He has said twice in recent months that while he still opposes same-sex marriage, his position is "evolving."

DOMA mandates that the federal government not recognize same-sex marriages and that states not be forced to recognize same-sex marriages from other states.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...98-503544.html
Here's the entire text of the letter from the Department of Justice to Speaker Boehner.





pretty big.

also looks like MD is about to pass SSM via the legislature. seems that listening to the testimony *against* SSM is what swayed some on-the-fence state representatives to vote in favor of SSM. seems that the more the argument advances, the more opposition is revealed to be little more than unfounded fear and ignorance.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:54 PM   #550
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Mike Huckabee denounced the Obama administration Wednesday for its decision to stop supporting the Defense of Marriage Act against challenges in court.
Continue Reading

Huckabee, who was traveling to Washington for much of the day and had not heard of the administration's decision before speaking with POLITICO, responded to the news: "It doesn't surprise me, but it disappoints me."

The Fox News host and ordained minister said President Barack Obama has sent out a "pretty consistent message" to voters who care about traditional cultural values.

And while Huckabee praised Obama for being a "role model as both a husband and a father," he voiced concern about the impact the White House's stance on DOMA would have on families.

"He's been a good husband and a good father," Huckabee told POLITICO. "Unfortunately, his policies are not necessarily conducive to helping other people, in their own families, to be good husbands and good fathers."

Huckabee was in the nation's capital to promote the release of his book, "A Simple Government," which argues that traditional families, with one husband and one wife, help promote economic stability.

In that light, Huckabee said DOMA is a law with important economic consequences.

"Two-thirds of the poverty in this country would be eliminated if the mothers of the children were married to the fathers," he said.

Read more: Huck: Obama indefensible on DOMA - Alexander Burns - POLITICO.com

please, someone, tell me: how on earth do two lesbians in Northampton getting married somehow prevent straight people from marrying each other and being good husbands and wives to each other and good fathers and mothers to their children?

what on earth do gay people have to do with heterosexual failings?
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:32 PM   #551
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"Two-thirds of the poverty in this country would be eliminated if the mothers of the children were married to the fathers," he said.
Uhm, maybe those mothers have good reasons not to be married to their children's fathers? Maybe those fathers walked out on their kids because they weren't man enough to take care of them? Maybe those mothers believe their lives are healthier and better without abusive men around? Hasn't Huckabee ever thought of those ideas?
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:37 PM   #552
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Uhm, maybe those mothers have good reasons not to be married to their children's fathers? Maybe those fathers walked out on their kids because they weren't man enough to take care of them? Maybe those mothers believe their lives are healthier and better without abusive men around? Hasn't Huckabee ever thought of those ideas?


no, it's my fault.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:37 PM   #553
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Damn, Irvine. You really get around.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:48 PM   #554
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Damn, Irvine. You really get around.


beware the meddling hand of the gays.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:56 PM   #555
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Oh, I do. If only so I don't get steamrolled by the gay agenda.

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