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Old 06-02-2010, 07:43 PM   #211
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I like how the guy in that first clip is SOOOOOOOO deadset against all sorts of interactions that may be construed as "gay", and yet he's sitting right next to a flamboyantly gay person! What does his precious Bible say about that, hmmm? Loved the transgender and "admiring a penis" bits (and woo, I'm ungodly-I watch "Will & Grace"! Go me. And yet, I'm still straight. Curious, that...).

Gay conversion groups are such a pathetic joke. I remember "South Park" once did an episode surrounding Butters going to one, and it was disturbingly funny stuff.

Angela
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:03 PM   #212
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Ironically it's about money in the second video. They use behavioural techniques that are so pavlovian and outdated from the 1950s. It's like A Clockwork Orange or Scientology.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:17 PM   #213
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How is that "ironic"?
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:34 PM   #214
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How is that "ironic"?
They talk about morality and curing but they really are making a business selling CDs and creating programs that actually causes psychological damage not unlike Scientology or behavioural nightmares that remind me of A Clockwork Orange. A cure that does it's opposite. That is ironic.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:40 PM   #215
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No, that's normal.

Morality has never been their reason. Anyone who really knows this issue knows it's not trully about morality, it's about political and congregation seats.

Which = $
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:44 PM   #216
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Is morality ever divorced from political power? It's seems like all these characters want to control other people by appealing to a higher authority.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:48 AM   #217
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Is morality ever divorced from political power? It's seems like all these characters want to control other people by appealing to a higher authority.
It's been argued that religion/morality arose from political power in the first place. The only reason we think otherwise is courtesy of the Enlightenment onwards, which brought us the notion of the separation of church and state.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #218
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The douchebag is at it again, compares homosexuals to Al-Queda:

YouTube - O'Reilly Compares Gays to Al-Qaeda
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:47 PM   #219
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He's all over the map. Here's another example:

Fascism?

YouTube - Bill O'Reilly Debates Against Science - and WINS!

I don't think Dawkins is some genius but Fascist? They should have a philosophy class for metaphysics but real physics should have its own class.
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:24 PM   #220
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I'm not sure I really understand the religious aspect of any arguments against homosexuality certainly from a Christian point of view, if it was that important to God you'd think it be mentioned in the bible more, there's like what two or three direct references, a couple of indirect ones which you'd have to do some mental gymnastics to turn into an argument against homosexuality (I'm looking at you Genesis 1 unless we're going to start subjecting single people, sterile folk to the same judgement) and pretty much everything direct is in the kookier sections of the Bible (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans) and certainly not in the Gospels themselves.

For the amount of effort wasted on it by some in the religious right you'd think there would be more.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:47 PM   #221
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I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking.

I've come to the conclusion that the leaders of anti-gay religious denominations, regardless of the little dances that they do, hate gays to the point of wanting them dead. That includes fundamentalist Protestants. And that includes the Catholic Church. I, quite definitively, must conclude that these "churches" are, at their core, immoral and that it is equally immoral for anyone to support them.

I am forced to admit that, although I haven't been to church regularly in a good decade, because of my mixed feelings about Catholicism, I've wanted to go back more than once. What always kept me drawn to the Church was the history and medieval intellectualism. What's always held me back has been the intolerance. What kept me further away was how such intolerance has been officially sanctioned, with dissenters punished and sometimes excommunicated. The final straw has been the realization that the "intellectualism" has given way to willful distortions to further those prejudices, which, as someone of high integrity and an aversion to lying, is intolerable.

I've found an Anglo-Catholic (Anglican) church here in Toronto with a strong dose of traditionalism and seemingly without the bigotry that appeals to me. I think I might start going there and just forget that I ever worried about what the Vatican thought of me. Sure, in the long run, they might reform. But it could be 500 years before they come to their senses (after all, it took 1500 years to realize that the Roman Empire had ended and that Latin was a dead language that nobody understood--in spite of the fact that Latin had been introduced in the first place, because nobody in the western empire understood Greek), and I clearly can't wait that long.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:54 PM   #222
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I don't think Dawkins is some genius but Fascist? They should have a philosophy class for metaphysics but real physics should have its own class.
In the theocon mindset, all of their opponents are socialists, fascists, and terrorists simultaneously. And if they're non-white, illegal immigrants.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:18 PM   #223
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In the theocon mindset, all of their opponents are socialists, fascists, and terrorists simultaneously.
They need to admit that heathens like Aristotle, Plato, and Stoics influenced their great religious thinkers.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:32 PM   #224
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They need to admit that heathens like Aristotle, Plato, and Stoics influenced their great religious thinkers.
Nope. Instead, it's "the Bible," which, not so coincidentally, happens to support every one of their prejudices and they believe that it's always been this way.

An extreme postmodernism has taken full residence in theoconservatism; which, instead of disregarding "Truth," is now trashing all forms of truths/facts and concrete observation. The world is now whatever they say it is.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:53 PM   #225
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Nope. Instead, it's "the Bible," which, not so coincidentally, happens to support every one of their prejudices and they believe that it's always been this way.

An extreme postmodernism has taken full residence in theoconservatism; which, instead of disregarding "Truth," is now trashing all forms of truths/facts and concrete observation. The world is now whatever they say it is.
It has to do with a fear that their lifestyles are somehow threatened. There was a Dawkins video I saw where a Creationist practically admitted that he didn't believe in it but felt that atheists don't have an alternative. Of course that's somewhat true. There isn't a moral code put into a book like a Bible that many people can gather around and worship but I think updating the belief system is a good move so we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater (which is a real concern) or adopt outdated ideas in a fundamentalist way.
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