The Christian Right and the Rise of American Fascism - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-02-2006, 09:37 AM   #91
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Of that 15% most occur during the first trimester, before the fetus can survive outside the womb. The fetus lacks all the functions necessary to make it human...
I realize it makes allowing abortion more palatable to dismiss the fetus as inhuman but consider that by the end of the first trimester,

"...nearly all of the organs and structures of the fetus are formed. They will continue to grow and develop until delivery. Fingers and toes have separated and hair and nails begin to grow. The genitals begin to take on their gender characteristics. Amniotic fluid begins to accumulate as the baby's kidneys begin to produce and excrete urine. The muscles in the intestinal walls begin to practice peristalsis - contractions within the intestines that digest food."

http://www.pregnancyguideonline.com/wk12.htm
__________________

__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 09:44 AM   #92
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
abortion thread alert!

Shhhh...I didn't get my 2 cents in before the last one was locked lol.
__________________

__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 09:51 AM   #93
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy


I realize it makes allowing abortion more palatable to dismiss the fetus as inhuman but consider that by the end of the first trimester,

I also realize how some can emotionalize such things as fingernails.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 05-02-2006, 10:28 AM   #94
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I also realize how some can emotionalize such things as fingernails.
I don't think you meant to suggest that aborting a fetus should be about as emotional as clipping off a fingernail...OR how breaking a fingernail on an otherwise perfect set (which I'll admit can be devastating in certain circumstances lol) can be remotely compared to the emotional impact of having an abortion.

So I'm not really sure how your comment fits here.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 10:33 AM   #95
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I also realize how some can emotionalize such things as fingernails.
No, I think AliEnvy may be highlighting the moral ambiguity needed to quickly approve of abortion as nothing more than a choice - without tackling the tougher issue of the life involved.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 10:43 AM   #96
Acrobat
 
BorderGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under A Blood Red Texas Sky
Posts: 418
Local Time: 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


A group of dividing cells does not a child make...
Human beings can only reproduce other human beings.
__________________
BorderGirl is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 10:47 AM   #97
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

No, I think AliEnvy may be highlighting the moral ambiguity needed to quickly approve of abortion as nothing more than a choice - without tackling the tougher issue of the life involved.
Yup. And to cut to the chase, I believe if more people who fall into the camp of pro-choice believed that every abortion was a tragic loss of life (not just potential life or almost life) that there would be better support systems for women (and men) in the whole realm of fertility and family planning and many, many more abortions could be avoided.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 11:06 AM   #98
Acrobat
 
BorderGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under A Blood Red Texas Sky
Posts: 418
Local Time: 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Since there are no "children" involved, no, I don't agree with that part of your statement.

Abortions are personal choices made by the woman, for the woman and as such are not violent acts committed against her anymore than a tonsillectomy is.
How did your heart become so hard?

"Human rights are not a privilege conferred by government. They are every human being’s entitlement by virtue of his humanity."
__________________
BorderGirl is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 11:13 AM   #99
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,498
Local Time: 02:57 AM
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 11:27 AM   #100
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl

"Human rights are not a privilege conferred by government. They are every human being’s entitlement by virtue of his humanity."
Would be nice if that were true. Doesn't seem to work like that in the real world though. Doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to it, mind you, but that would require a whole lotta sacrifice most people are not ready to give.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 11:54 AM   #101
Acrobat
 
BorderGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under A Blood Red Texas Sky
Posts: 418
Local Time: 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy


Would be nice if that were true. Doesn't seem to work like that in the real world though. Doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to it, mind you, but that would require a whole lotta sacrifice most people are not ready to give.
Which one of those 'real worlds' isn't real?

All these things we care about depend, in the end, upon this: that we have the character to sustain our hopes, and aspirations. Surrender to love.

"Abortion can present itself as glittering liberty, a defiant way to cast off the shackles of injustice. That illusion lasts only until you realize who it was that you threw into the flames."
__________________
BorderGirl is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:02 PM   #102
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,498
Local Time: 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl
"Abortion can present itself as glittering liberty, a defiant way to cast off the shackles of injustice. That illusion lasts only until you realize who it was that you threw into the flames."




do you really think women who have abortions are light-hearted about it? i think the anti-choice crowd would get much further with their arguments if they'd show at least an ounce of sympathy and understanding for women who are faced with difficult decisions and are simply trying to do the best they can rather than either obsessing over theories of when life begins or invoking words like "killing" and "murder."

it isn't the having the abortion that's a form of freedom over one's body; it having the freedom to choose when one does and does not get pregnant.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:41 PM   #103
Acrobat
 
BorderGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under A Blood Red Texas Sky
Posts: 418
Local Time: 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

do you really think women who have abortions are light-hearted about it?
Hardly.
I'm not passing judgement on the women, just on the environment we all help to create that makes abortion an option.
This indulgent society allows us to let ourselves off the hook for what we do and what we fail to do in many other areas as well.
It also seems to stifle the "Forbidden Grief" that SOME women feel after abortion.

Here's a pretty good article wrtitten by a man whose wife asked him to attend a retreat on post traumatic stress after abortion.

Caution: may contain religious references.
w w w. rachelsvineyard.org/men/respect.

(paste and remove spaces)
__________________
BorderGirl is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:57 PM   #104
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
it isn't the having the abortion that's a form of freedom over one's body; it having the freedom to choose when one does and does not get pregnant.
Why do we stigmatize the single best choice women have to prevent pregnancy?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-02-2006, 02:02 PM   #105
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,498
Local Time: 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Why do we stigmatize the single best choice women have to prevent pregnancy?


often, it isn't a choice, whether rape or not. my brother works in a very rough inner-city chicago school. most of the girls who are pregnant at 14 or 15 have boyfriends in their early 20s.

and people are human. people mess up. people make mistakes. so can we agree on the need to make emergency contraception widely available, if not federally funded?
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com