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Old 05-02-2006, 05:01 PM   #136
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Originally posted by BorderGirl
~Open up to the love of God
To the love of He who made the blind to see~
-lyrics by Bono


and you realize that bono is pro-choice, yes?
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:04 PM   #137
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:12 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Condom painless and cheap. The pill fairly inexpensive and little side effects.

You're saying this is comparable to having surgery, possibly a few times a year? Something painful and a lot more costly than a condom.
I'm not suggesting that routine abortion would be anyone's usual approach but it's always there as a last resort.

I'm thinking that someone in the throes of passion without proper protection who views the first several months of pregnancy as meaningless (male or female) is less likely to stop and use protection than someone who views abortion as killing.

Short term pleasure usually wins out over the gamble of pain later on.
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:17 PM   #139
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Originally posted by Irvine511

it sounds like you don't respect the amount of thought and emotional investment each woman puts into whatever decision regarding an unplanned pregnancy.
Really though, what emotional investment is there unless a woman believes there is life inside her?

If a 10 week old fetus isn't alive and she doesn't want a child, there's really no need to fuss.
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:21 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy


I'm not suggesting that routine abortion would be anyone's usual approach but it's always there as a last resort.
But that's exactly what your post said, that's why the analogy made no sense.

Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy

I'm thinking that someone in the throes of passion without proper protection who views the first several months of pregnancy as meaningless (male or female) is less likely to stop and use protection than someone who views abortion as killing.

Short term pleasure usually wins out over the gamble of pain later on.
And no, this isn't true. I've never had sex where birth control wasn't used, even in the throes of passion. No one wants to face abortion, and very few enter into abortion lightly. Your judgement of those who are pro-choice are grossly and overtly condescending and incorrect. This is exactly why I had the tone of which I had before, I apologize.
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:23 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy


Really though, what emotional investment is there unless a woman believes there is life inside her?

If a 10 week old fetus isn't alive and she doesn't want a child, there's really no need to fuss.
First of all, have you ever had surgery? Surgery alone comes with some emotional investment.

Secondly, it may not be a child, but the fetus does grow into a child. Facing that potential has emotional investment.
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:38 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

and you realize that bono is pro-choice, yes?
He's also said: "I don't set myself up as any kind of 'Christian.' — I don't feel comfortable with that badge," People can't help but wonder, "Is Bono a part of the (Christian) Body or not?"
While his comments smack of flavorless salt, the rock star claims to be salt nonetheless.
A lot of really good hearted people support abortion. Well-meaning friends and acquaintances may recommend abortion as a solution to a difficult situation.
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:44 PM   #143
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

But that's exactly what your post said, that's why the analogy made no sense.
No, my post said it would be another garden variety form of birth control. And to use the analogy you keep snarling at me on, csection has become a garden variety birthing method. Regardless of the pain and risks.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

No one wants to face abortion, and very few enter into abortion lightly. Your judgement of those who are pro-choice are grossly and overtly condescending and incorrect. This is exactly why I had the tone of which I had before, I apologize.
In case you missed it earlier, I am pro-choice. I am challenging other pro-choicers on the notion of the beginning of life and if that has come across as condescending and judgemental, I'm sorry, I'm not really sure how much more delicately I could have put it.

It would just be nice to throw out ideas about life, unwanted pregnancy and abortion without descending into right and wrong.
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Old 05-02-2006, 06:08 PM   #144
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tangent, but...

Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl


He's also said: "I don't set myself up as any kind of 'Christian.' — I don't feel comfortable with that badge," People can't help but wonder, "Is Bono a part of the (Christian) Body or not?"
If by Christian Body you mean "American Conservative Religious" Body, then no, he is not a part of that body. Bono has expanded on those two quotes plenty, essentially saying that his faith is not at issue, rather his comfort with organized religion and what organized religion has done to Christianity and how it's perceived in the world. That's why he's uncomortable with being labeled a Christian, because it's come to mean far more than a recognition of one's faith.





And now back to the regularly scheduled abortion debate.
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Old 05-02-2006, 06:27 PM   #145
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Re: tangent, but...

Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


If by Christian Body you mean "American Conservative Religious" Body, then no, he is not a part of that body. Bono has expanded on those two quotes plenty, essentially saying that his faith is not at issue, rather his comfort with organized religion and what organized religion has done to Christianity and how it's perceived in the world. That's why he's uncomortable with being labeled a Christian, because it's come to mean far more than a recognition of one's faith.
By his own words he's a "believer", a Christian--- a follower of Christ. For the sake of his poverty work I'm glad all these organized religions are organized. They make his job of visiting them a little easier.
It's tidy to have things in one place
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Old 05-02-2006, 06:43 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon

I am about as disillusioned with liberals as I am conservatives. Conservatives just happen to have the power to legislate their hysteria at the present moment. If liberals get back in power someday, I'll be waiting to rip them to pieces too. Politics bite.

Melon
Though I think the problem that Fundamentalist Christians have taken over the right is sometimes balanced by Atheists that have taken over the left.
Why is it that morality seems to have been hijacked by the right? Where is the left on some of these issues?
I hate labels.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:06 PM   #147
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Re: tangent, but...

Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


If by Christian Body you mean "American Conservative Religious" Body, then no, he is not a part of that body. Bono has expanded on those two quotes plenty, essentially saying that his faith is not at issue, rather his comfort with organized religion and what organized religion has done to Christianity and how it's perceived in the world. That's why he's uncomortable with being labeled a Christian, because it's come to mean far more than a recognition of one's faith.
I think Bono is trying to avoid being "claimed" by any group - which is as much a matter of saying he is not part of a group as it is saying he is part of a group.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:09 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl


Though I think the problem that Fundamentalist Christians have taken over the right is sometimes balanced by Atheists that have taken over the left.
Athiests or people of faith, who know the lines of church and state?
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:32 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Athiests or people of faith, who know the lines of church and state?
They've got exist somewhere out there.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:56 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl


They've got exist somewhere out there.
Yes, but they're a pretty small minority in America.

But even so I don't see how it would be of any concern at all?!

We live in a country where religion isn't even suppose to be involved in politics or policy.
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