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Old 09-16-2006, 01:10 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram

I am not saying that a $25K/year salary is a myth. But it is by no means standard across the board and across the world either.
From the site US Department of Labor website:

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Median annual earnings of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $41,400 to $45,920 in May 2004; the lowest 10 percent earned $26,730 to $31,180; the top 10 percent earned $66,240 to $71,370. Median earnings for preschool teachers were $20,980.

According to the American Federation of Teachers, beginning teachers with a bachelor’s degree earned an average of $31,704 in the 2003–04 school year. The estimated average salary of all public elementary and secondary school teachers in the 2003–04 school year was $46,597.
I was fully aware how much I would make when I chose teaching as my profession. $82K/year is most definitely the exception, not the rule.
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Old 09-16-2006, 01:10 PM   #122
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The American Federation of Teachers issues a Teacher Salary Trends report each year to survey the pay levels of U.S. educators. In 2002 (the latest data available), the average teacher salary was $44,367.

The study ranks the states according to teacher salary, with California ($54,348), Michigan ($52,497) and Connecticut ($52,376) at the top of the list. South Dakota had the lowest average teacher salary at $31,383.
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Old 09-16-2006, 01:11 PM   #123
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Originally posted by martha
Is there another profession that endures the bullshit we get from the public? Do people set medical policy by referendum? Do people put require lawyers to submit to the whims of the politicians to determine how they do their jobs?
You're working in a publically funded, quasi-governmental institution. Public schools are never going to escape this heavy scrutiny, and I think many people get pissed off, because they look at the heavy tax bill they get each year to fund schools and then get told that it's still not enough. And that's where a lot of tensions are flaring, I think.

People cannot set medical policy by referendum, because they are privately funded; but with the few aspects of medicine that are publically funded, Bush obviously has done an awful lot to infuse politics into what publically-funded medicine can and cannot do.

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Old 09-16-2006, 01:17 PM   #124
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Originally posted by melon


One of the biggest differences I've noticed between public and private schools is that private schools generally have wider latitude to enforce discipline, with parents having less recourse to complain.

I'm also a fan of fairly strict dress codes (although one of my major complaints with how they are applied is that they are generally made of clothes that are grotesquely unfashionable and poorly made).

I know that the laws are rather screwed up in these regards, although I see more and more public schools choosing uniforms these days. I do think that there needs to be something seriously done, legislatively, to clarify and strengthen disciplinary action, without resorting to draconian "zero tolerance" policies. Private schools generally don't have those either.

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Here's the thing about private schools though: They can choose who they want as students.

Private schools have no obligation to keep students who have discipline problems or academic problems. They can kick them out for any number of reasons.
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Old 09-16-2006, 01:23 PM   #125
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
Private schools have no obligation to keep students who have discipline problems or academic problems. They can kick them out for any number of reasons.
I never knew the private schools I went to kick out someone who had underperforming academic performance. However, they also felt free to flunk students and not advance them to the next grade level. I knew a few students who had then opted to go to public schools after that experience, but I also knew a few that kept going after being held back.

However, I do know that they also didn't have a problem suspending or expelling students with disciplinary problems; but these were actions that were generally used as a last resort. I went to school with some rather insufferably bad kids, and as much as I hated them and wished they'd get expelled, they ended up graduating with me.

Expulsion was only reserved for the absolute worst offenses that you can imagine, but I also know that there's some really terrible offenses that can get you expelled from the public school system too.

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Old 09-16-2006, 02:16 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
The new teachers coming into the profession, while full of energy, and ideas, I think lack the complete skill package that it would take to not leave a child behind.
IYO, why do they lack it?
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Old 09-16-2006, 02:18 PM   #127
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Originally posted by martha


There must be lines outside the district employment office. Lines, I tell you.
It's actually relatively difficult to get a full-time position (most of the people just graduating go to LTE positions first about 2-3 years on a probationary basis).
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Old 09-16-2006, 02:24 PM   #128
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


There is not a single teacher in any of the surrounding towns making anywhere near 82K a year.

That is the starting salary of a principal working almost full year.
But this is also because most people here constantly frame every argument from their (ie. American) POV which is fair enough, but the fact is, it isn't like that across the board in other places.

Teaching is not seen as a poorly paid profession here, and with good reason.
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:07 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

IYO, why do they lack it?
In my opinion, there are AWESOME young teachers, but there is something to be said for experience in dealing with children, parents, and the demands of the job.

I am not certain schools are putting enough emphasis on classroom management. Classroom management will make or break a new teacher. You can have the greatest ideas in the world, but if you cannot manage the classroom with realistic expectations, it will not work. I also believe veteran teachers are better equipped with the experience to get children to understand the difficult concepts and move through the curriculum.



That said, a well run mentoring program, will help a young teacher get through the first years. I would say it takes three years for a new teacher to feel comfortable in their skin. In the first five here in MA a Master's degree has to be finished on top of learning the profession.
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:41 PM   #130
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So, is a mentoring program standard then? How does it work and what commitments on the part of the mentor(s) does it entail? Are you saying most complete it before completing their M.Ed (meaning "student teachers" then, I guess)?

Also, what would you say are the major skills involved in "classroom management"?

(anyone can answer these by the way, I'm not necessarily asking Dread in particular)
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:45 PM   #131
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Mentoring programs are pretty much the assigning of a veteran teacher to help a new teacher through their first year. It has nothing to do with the MA.
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Old 09-16-2006, 04:01 PM   #132
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Mentoring programs help move new teachers from their initial certificate to their standard certificate in IL.
There are a number of ways to move from initial to standard though. (Attending seminars, workshops, grad school classes)
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Old 09-16-2006, 04:15 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
Are you saying most complete it before completing their M.Ed (meaning "student teachers" then, I guess)?
Don't confuse a graduate degree with experience in teaching. I don't have an MA, but I have plenty of experience.
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Old 09-16-2006, 04:37 PM   #134
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I'm not; I'm just trying to figure out what these mentoring programs are like and how they fit into the overall picture of preparing one to teach.

I am very unclear on what the rules are concerning the relevance of an MA/M.Ed to one's professional status--my impression is they vary from one place to another. I have known people who were turned down for teaching positions, in both public and private schools, because (so they were told) they did not have a master's in education.
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Old 09-16-2006, 05:06 PM   #135
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In the State of MA, you need to double major in a subject and education. You need to pass the teacher's exam. You then get a provisional teacher's certificate.

After you are hired

you must complete a Master's Program within the first five years of your teaching career to get a professional certificate.

------------------

A mentoring program is run by the town you are employed by.
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