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Old 01-12-2002, 10:43 AM   #46
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Ah, whatever. Look, on my way back to Britain a while ago I sat next to this American marine who was going home for some 'family problems'. He was a likeable fellow, and he had some real neat stuff packed in his bags, but what I remember most about him was this sudden outburst during a conversation where he said, and I quote; "we're gonna fuck up Iraq pretty bad'.

Apparently,according to military intelligence (oh, thats a hilarious oxymoron)America DOES have big plans for Iraq. I don't know how true this is or not, but I really do hope that it isn't. As much as I support the USA's efforts in Afghanistan, I really don't think the USA should go after Iraq without provocation. Hussein IS a madman and should be stopped, but Bush Sr didn't do the job and I don't see why Bush Jr should do it if there is no provocation or cause; to anyone who thinks USA should go after Iraq, or anybody else for that matter - its a bad idea. Not only is it just pushing it for countries to question how arrogant and imperious the USA is,but its also unfair at the heart of it all.

And also, I can't help notice at the beginning of the thread this talk of 'America saving the day in WW2'. This is absolute nonsense. It took America bloody ages for it to get involved (yes, I know its not constructive of me to say so, but it IS a fact)and when it did the Russians were already sacrificing millions so that the Eastern front could fall; I still crave for the day when they will make a film called 'SAVING PRIVARE VLADIMIR' and see how much that sells. I'm sorry, but I really do think that eventually credit should be given to the Russians. Don't blow the American trumpet when talking of WW2, if America had joined ealier lots of lives needlessly lost would have been saved; there's a thought.

I am not, by any means, creating a hate campaign for America, all I'm saying is that you shouldn't use WW2 as an example of your finest hours.

Ant.
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Old 01-12-2002, 01:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Holy John:
the 'talk to my hand' brainless blonds
Holy John:

What is your problem with blond-haired people? This is the second time lately that I have seen you post some generalization of "blonds" and you sound like a fucking moron when you do it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Holy John in another thread:
I would be the first to make the kid-trick to walk on the beaches with a magnifying glass y'know), then its a complete waiste of time for blond people.
What are your thoughts on blond people anyway?

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Old 01-12-2002, 01:48 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
Apparently,according to military intelligence (oh, thats a hilarious oxymoron)Ant.
Good grief, Anthony! The people who run the military are VERY intelligent people. You think they would let dumb asses run the military? Could you be more insulting? One of my best friends was a code-breaker for the army. She's incredibly smart.
I thank God for our military, who are brave enough to stand up and make the sacrifices that people like you and me are too chicken to make.
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Old 01-12-2002, 01:55 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano:

Everytime anyone starts a thread about politics or government or war, it's so predictable what each and every person is going to say. Sometimes I wonder what's point of replying, because 80sU2isBest or AucthungBebe or someone else is going to rehash why they think Republicans are perfect in every way, shape or form.
The truth is usually scaring and almost always makes you feel uncomfortable. Criticizism of government is what rock music is all about.
Dano, first, it's Achtung Bubba, not Bebe, that usually sides with me. Secondly, I don't mind criticism of teh government. What I mind is people like Doctor Gonzo or Holy John, who never have a damn thing to say on this forum except for to come in every once in a while and purposefully stir up trouble by making comments like "F***ing idiots" about Americans. And if you think that didn't happen, you're wrong. Insulting and criticism are two different things, and often, their criticisms are also filled with insults (particularly Holy John).
And no, i don't think Republicans are perfect, nor have I ever said they were. But I think conservative moral values and political idealogy are much better than their liberal alternatives.
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Old 01-12-2002, 07:31 PM   #50
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Alright 80sU2isBest, I apologise. I will admit, the people who RUN the military are probably highly intelligent people, but I don't think too much of the subservients, no matter what the sacrifice, and I don't mean to insult YOUR army particularly, but an observation of ALL armies. I'm sorry, but it doesn't take a lot of brain power to fire a weapon.

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Old 01-12-2002, 07:42 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
but I don't think too much of the subservients, no matter what the sacrifice, and I don't mean to insult YOUR army particularly, but an observation of ALL armies. I'm sorry, but it doesn't take a lot of brain power to fire a weapon.
Oh, I guess this is meant for z edge and some close friends (and groomsmen and former bandmates) of mine who have served in the military. Freakin' dumbasses.

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Old 01-12-2002, 07:48 PM   #52
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Alright! I apologise for generalising already; you aren't the only ones with friends in the military; I KNOW that they're not all dumbasses, but you do get a large proportion of them who are (my friend isn't too bright either, thats why he joined - as he so eloquently put it).

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Old 01-12-2002, 10:05 PM   #53
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To comment on the "dumb people" in the military bit, it is a generalization, but I think what the cause of it is is that the military is often seen as a dumping ground for those who weren't smart enough to get into college.

Plus, those who are smart enough often don't make a career out of the military, mostly because of the low pay issues (how many people in the military are on food stamps?) and the reputation the military has gotten as a hostile work environment and virtual hate group--i.e., misogynist and homophobic.

I'm not generalizing. I'm just stating what people think of it.

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Old 01-14-2002, 12:34 PM   #54
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Speedracer, I do think we could have minimized civilian casualties significantly. Which is not perfect, but I think any course of action would result in some deaths - but letting Bin Laden & Co. continue to operate would also result in some deaths. So I could have accepted a military solution to rout out Bin Laden & Co. under certain conditions:

1. MUCH more emphasis on minimizing civilian deaths. Bombs, despite what we're told, do not discriminate between combatants and non-combatants. Bombing, even when one is trying to avoid civilian targets, is extremely subject to targeting errors. Also, bombing destroys infrastructure, which will ultimately result in many more indirect deaths of civilians.

2. Evidence of Bin Laden's involvement presented to an international forum (such as the U.N. General Assembly), with vast consensus on using military force.

3. We make a commitment to rebuild what we destroy, we pay reparations to non-combatants hurt in the process, we refrain from taking economic advantage of the situation (i.e. Central Asian oil and oil pipelines belong to Central Asians, with no special "deals" for the U.S. & allies), and we expend resources in re-building Afghanistan as a true democracy (regardless of whether the government they vote in is amenable to U.S. business interests).

I would respect that kind of effort.
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Old 01-15-2002, 04:03 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
their criticisms are also filled with insults (particularly Holy John).
so why is gonzo being lumped in with this?

i must add, how about letting someone COUNTER their side before every damn person attacks them? (not referring to 80sU2... here, i'm speaking to everyone)
if you guys can't handle people cricizing our country's precious government, perhaps we should change to a dictatorship so our say means nothing anyway? or maybe a big brother type country where we can't complain anyway?

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and today the millions cry, we eat and drink while tomorrow they die...
ME!
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Old 01-15-2002, 06:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes:
so why is gonzo being lumped in with this?

i must add, how about letting someone COUNTER their side before every damn person attacks them? (not referring to 80sU2... here, i'm speaking to everyone)
if you guys can't handle people cricizing our country's precious government, perhaps we should change to a dictatorship so our say means nothing anyway? or maybe a big brother type country where we can't complain anyway?
Gonzo is lumped in with this, because he enjoys insulting Americans, also, just not as much as Holy John, it seems.
As for the part about us guys not being able to handle people criticizing teh goevrnment, I implore you to go back and read my last message to Danspano, and you will see what bothers me, and it is NOT when people merely criticize the government.
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