The Bigly 2016 US Presidential Election Thread, Part XV - Page 11 - U2 Feedback

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Old 10-27-2016, 02:09 PM   #151
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Going to have at least 12 years of a dem in the white house, might be able to take all of Congress too if this election is a true blow out, and could tip the balance in the Supreme Court for the next 40 years...

THATS NOT FUCKING GOOD ENOUGH!!!! WE MUST CRUSH THE REPUBLICANS INTO DUST!!!

Jesus... don't those who lean far to the left realize that you're winning? Seriously... From 1992 to at least 2020 will feature 20 of 28 years of a Democrat in the white house, the country is MUCH further to the left than it was at the start of that run, and the likely Supreme Court tipping will only push the country further to the left.

Social conservatism is dying. They're not going to go down without a fight, but it's a fight without hope. Don't fucking push it so far that you give them life. Stay the course and you'll get everything you want. Don't be a greedy dick about it. Sheesh.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:12 PM   #152
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Stupid phone.

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Old 10-27-2016, 02:13 PM   #153
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They won't compromise. I don't get why people are blind to this or act like I'm being a dick when it comes to this sort of thing.

I'm totally down with finding the middle ground with Republicans on minimum wage, immigration, etc. The problem is that there is no middle ground. They refuse to budge. You've had eight years of their obstructionism to paint this truth for you time and again.

As I've said for about the dozenth time in this thread, I am for compromise. It's not my way or the highway when it comes to governing. They won't compromise, therefore, there is nothing Clinton or any Democratic President could do to accomplish anything left leaning. It's an absolute fact.





But this somehow wouldn't have been an issue for Bernie and his leftist policies? I don't ever remember you bringing this up as an issue for Bernie, yet you have repeatedly for Clinton.

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Old 10-27-2016, 02:26 PM   #154
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Bernie would not have had any issues whatsoever. He'd be up 97 to 3, with the 3 points going to Evan McMullin.

College and health care would already be free, as they insurance companies would have been so frightened that they just gave in.

ISIS would throw down their arms and admit that this whole religion thing is just a bunch of hogwash.

Cause Bern.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:31 PM   #155
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Feel the Bern baby.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:46 PM   #156
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This is the most likely scenario IMO. The interests of the business types who don't want social intervention and the financial illiterates who want dramatic social intervention are too conflicting to fit within the parameters of one party anymore. When you try to bridge the gap between the two, you get a monstrous hybrid like Trump.


I'd argue that W Bush was able to bridge that gap -- the blue-blood with the pedigree who got Born Again.

Trump seems a different sort, more a result/reaction of/to globalism and multiculturalism. There's no religion, and his economics are broadly populist but really just garden variety infomercial get-rich-quick alongside a healthy serving of scapegoat.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:50 PM   #157
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his economics are broadly populist but really just garden variety infomercial get-rich-quick alongside a healthy serving of scapegoat.

What a golden way to put it.

His economics are like a Golden Corral.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:54 PM   #158
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I'd argue that W Bush was able to bridge that gap -- the blue-blood with the pedigree who got Born Again.
I think they felt more comfortable with him, for sure. He had the language down and wasn't afraid to pander. But he was also lucky in the sense that the states were pushing anti-gay measures when he was running so in that sense he was attached to them without actually having to do any of the dirty work himself. What did he get done for social conservatism while in office? I can really only think of two things off the top of my head - cutting off international aid to abortion providers (which really doesn't affect domestic policy anyway) and nominating Alito. Yes, he also nominated Roberts, but among social conservatives, the view is that he shat the bed on that one. His entire policy was run by Dick Cheney who clearly couldn't give a half a crap about any sort of conservative values.

They were basically duped, my feeling is that the ones who are also xenophobic/racist/sexist (probably a high number) shifted the Trump, and the ones who are true Jesus warriors with no other interests will either hold their hypocritical noses and vote for Trump or will be disengaged and not vote.
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:02 PM   #159
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I think that W couldn't have gotten elected without Cheney, but could have been a much better president without Cheney.

I think he knows this, too. Thus his almost complete disappearance from public life since leaving office. I think he's embarrassed for himself that he allowed himself to be suckered by Cheney and Rumsfeld.
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:51 PM   #160
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But he was also lucky in the sense that the states were pushing anti-gay measures when he was running so in that sense he was attached to them without actually having to do any of the dirty work himself.


i don't remember, but didn't Rove orchestrate this? states with GOP governors/legislatures put these measures up for votes in 2004 to motivate the socially conservative base, which may have actually tipped Ohio.
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Old 10-27-2016, 04:00 PM   #161
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Seriously, go look at what you wrote and tell me you aren't advocating the kind of obstructionism of which you're criticizing the right.
Yep, I'm not. Because I never have been in support of obstructionism nor said that the left shouldn't at least try to work with Republicans.

I just don't understand what you're failing to grasp here. If one group isn't willing to compromise whatsoever, then voting with them on anything is essentially not a compromise because they are only supportive of things anathema to your cause. It's getting none of what you want instead of some.

Again, the worry of the left isn't Hillary trying to work with them for good things. It's that they won't support any of that stuff (and we all know they won't) so it will lead her to proactively work with them on crap like expanded fracking, militarism and cutting Social Security (something she pondered in private speeches and something Obama pondered as part of a "Grand Bargain" - both merely to try to get somewhere with Republicans). That's not progress, it's a step backward for no real reason.

Likewise, Republicans have proven that they aren't even willing to bargain within the same bit of legislation. Such as their "piece meal" approach to immigration where they basically wanted to pass a bill to increase border security and then leave Obama high-and-dry when it came to the rest. It's that sort of pointless trickery that makes it not even worth having an honest discussion with these idiots, but hey, there's no harm in trying.

I'm all for getting some of what you want. I have no problem with reaching across the aisle. They aren't going to listen whatsoever. And there's precedent for somebody in Hillary's position and his name is Bill Clinton. He was stonewalled by Republicans so he went along with them on deregulating the banks, cutting welfare, etc. just to be able to say he "did something"...and that's what worries me and should worry everybody in this thread.
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Old 10-27-2016, 04:08 PM   #162
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But this somehow wouldn't have been an issue for Bernie and his leftist policies? I don't ever remember you bringing this up as an issue for Bernie, yet you have repeatedly for Clinton.
Actually, I said multiple times that any Democrat would suffer the exact same fate. The only plus Bernie had is that maybe actually riling up people and getting thousands marching in the streets could lead to, say, a minimum wage increase via grassroots efforts. It's at least a bolder attempt for change, but with the Republican establishment the way it is, it likely would have failed as well.

Again, it's not Hillary Clinton that is the problem when it comes to this. But she can become a problem if she willingly sells out key causes of the left for no real reason. I just can't for a second think that the Hillary Clinton that knows she is becoming the first female President is going to sit in that office for eight years with her hands tied behind her back thanks to a GOP Congress (and, some of the time, Senate).

We already know that Clinton and her inner circle (via an in-depth article on her campaign months back) discuss the issue of GOP obstructionism all the time with one another. She is naively optimistic and also believes that Obama somehow screwed up in dealing with them (really?). So it's not like she doesn't see the writing on the wall and the political ramifications that will ensue when the GOP inevitably holds onto the House in a couple weeks.

And the obstructionist mud-fight idea I talked about months back (where Democrats are best to just literally wait for Republican voters to die off and then start passing legislation they like) wasn't supposed to be something batshit or "my way or the highway"...it's literally the political reality that we are facing. They won't compromise, so why, in the meantime, stab yourself in the side with anti-environmental, anti-worker garbage that they support?

The future is looking good for Democrats. It just might take ten years to finally get the House back. Until then, wait it out. Again, I'm all for compromises if they are willing to come to the table, but this GOP has absolutely no reason to do so. Their tactics are a clearly winning strategy that only hurts them on the national level and does an excellent job at suppressing turnout by lowering America's opinion of politicians. Why would you stop a strategy that's helping you win a bunch of extra Senate and House seats every mid-term?
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Old 10-27-2016, 05:42 PM   #163
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none of it matters anyways because the advanced terminal palliative parkinsonssuperaidseverythingcancerstroke epilepsy is going to kill her by thanksgiving.

that damn magic johnson.
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Old 10-27-2016, 06:52 PM   #164
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Guys, did you all hear that "super-liberal hero" Michael Moore has endorsed Don the Con Trump?! Facebook is telling me, so it must be true.


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Old 10-27-2016, 07:48 PM   #165
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i don't remember, but didn't Rove orchestrate this? states with GOP governors/legislatures put these measures up for votes in 2004 to motivate the socially conservative base, which may have actually tipped Ohio.
Yes, Rove played a role in some of the states (others caught on and decided to jump on the homophobic bandwagon). In most instances those measures were going to ballot anyway, Rove was more instrumental in timing it to coincide with a presidential election year.

Luckily hating gays no longer seems to motivate enough people to get their asses to the voting booth.
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