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Old 03-04-2004, 07:03 PM   #16
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It is literal that God created all things. By using "seven days", God shows that He is a God of order, plan and purpose.
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:13 PM   #17
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I suppose I believe that the Bible to be flawless in the sense that it carries God's authority. That is was written by men and tranlated sure the literal meaning might have some error but not the message . Then I suppose the holy spirit inspired men to write, but it was the mens words and personality inerrancy of the text. If the Bible says X happened and then we find out X really never really happened , how can we see truth in anything else

So if you think of the bible as being written by God and believe.If the Bible says X happened and then we find out X really never really happened , how can we see truth in anything else if the bible is Gods word and what he said was proven wrong.

the Bible itself says Gods word is flawless, so If you believe in the Bible as being inspired by God but written by Man who is not flawless it seems this to me makes much more sense.I see great stories in the bible that teach me lessons everyday and that humble me and I can't claim to be any sort of good christian at all . I take some of it literally and some of it as parable meant to be just that.

I guess it's why too it is a great to have the Message by Eugene Peterson, and look at the translation he has done ...
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:21 PM   #18
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The Massage is an excellent book
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:24 PM   #19
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Indeed I think it's an excellent book
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Here is a contradiction.......

Either Jesus lied, the translation is wrong.....or people get to decide what is Literal or Allegory depending on what they wish to point out.

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Mt 12:40)

Now count with me.....

Good Friday One Night
Saturday Two Nights
Sunday Rose from the dead.

This is not THREE NIGHTS.....
This is kinda long so I won't post it all here, but there is an explanation here:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/abdiscr/abdiscr49.html
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
It is literal that God created all things. By using "seven days", God shows that He is a God of order, plan and purpose.
So God literally created everything, but the seven days are symbolic?

I still can't understand how people differentiate passages which are to be interpreted literally and those which are symbolic though. Someone explain to me?
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave


This is kinda long so I won't post it all here, but there is an explanation here:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/abdiscr/abdiscr49.html
1st thank you for posting it.....

Second....clearly you prove my point...this is not LITERAL. It was symbolic.
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees

So God literally created everything, but the seven days are symbolic?

I still can't understand how people differentiate passages which are to be interpreted literally and those which are symbolic though. Someone explain to me?

Do you believe God can do anything? I do - I believe He could have done it in 7 literal days, 7,000 years, or 7 milliseconds. No one was at creation, so no one truly knows about the actual time, but I don't think it ultimately matters.
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
This is not LITERAL. It was symbolic.
And.........?

I didn't say the entire Bible was literal - though I do believe it all to be true and from God/The Holy Spirit, whether you are talking about parables, historic events, whatever.

For those who think men could have or have made errors as the Bible has been written/translated....this is just my take on it, but 2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..." - I can envision the Holy Spirit whispering, dictating to the men who wrote the Bible, so that there is no error. Purely the picture in my own mind's eye, call me crazy
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:00 PM   #25
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Surely this thread sets up a false dichotomy - I don't see why it is entirely one or the other.

You might as well ask 'John Kerry - our greatest prospective President, or child-eating monster?'
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:06 PM   #26
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Maybe the Bible is more truly 'flawed but inspired'?

Given the number of translations it's been through, the number of hands to the wheel, the number of beliefs those people brought to their work, I cannot take seriously anyone who would try to push a kind of 'divine stenographer' idea. This flies in the face of free will, which the authors presumably had. If humans were given free will, it's true for all.

Also I happen to be biased against the notion of an interventionist God. He may reveal himself from time to time, but he doesn't hold our hands.

Also there is no 'the Bible'. There are many translations, and they are far from identical.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave


And.........?

I didn't say the entire Bible was literal - though I do believe it all to be true and from God/The Holy Spirit, whether you are talking about parables, historic events, whatever.

For those who think men could have or have made errors as the Bible has been written/translated....this is just my take on it, but 2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..." - I can envision the Holy Spirit whispering, dictating to the men who wrote the Bible, so that there is no error. Purely the picture of my own mind's eye, call me crazy
How then do you explain the books and writings that others claimed were inspired divinely but were removed from the Bible begging with the Council of Nice? How can you deny the POLITICS involved in the early church and the fact that Emporer Constantine had influence in determining the course of the Church.

EX:

The Gospel of the Birth of Mary
Thomas' Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus
The Epsitle of Paul the Apostle to the LAODICEANS
The General Epsitle of Barnabas (Pauls Companion)

MAN decided who was divinely inspired.

Now I can still be inspired and love scripture, however, having read the books listed above it is interesting that Barnabas' book, a book that was written by a disciple of Paul, who knew the teachings of Paul better than probably anyone else, had his book cut. Why? He was not divinely inspired?
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:18 PM   #28
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For Fizzing and anyone else wondering about the creation question, there is a *dizzying* 53 page word-by-word analysis of the creation account. The question of literal vs figurative 7 days starts on page 10:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/r...ewcreation.pdf
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:31 PM   #29
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For Dread:

THE CANON AND EXTRA-CANONICAL WRITINGS

Do you give any credence to the above?
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:40 PM   #30
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You can't take the Creation narrative literally. It was most likely written by Moses, who's purpose was NOT to take down scientific FACT, but to present the creation story, as he understood it, using common literary styles of his time so that normal people could understand.

I took a class last year that was devoted to showing us how stories that are wide open to criticism (like Creation, Flood, Jericho, etc) are true in the ways that they needed to be true (purpose, message/meaning), not necessarily 100% chronological discriptions of events (that would be so boring anyway!).

Another place where the numbers don't make sense: the Flood narrative. First, the Bible says 7 of each animal, then just two. We learned that the Flood narrative in the Bible is probably a reinterpretation of the one in the Gilgamesh story (I think that's it). My history Prof. gave a few simple reasons for this. First, the original (if it truly is the original) Flood story has no moral theme like the Bible's does (God saved Noah's family because they were good people). Also, the "boat" structure in the first story is sort of square, while in the Bible, the boat is more boat shaped with very specific dimensions. It makes more sense to add a moral theme and specifics like dimensions and a boat that actually looks like a boat to the original than it does to remove a moral theme and make the boat square.

I think he's right; I think the Flood narrative in the Bible is NOT the original and the original is either the one of Gilgamesh, or another from which both of these were derived.
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