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Old 03-10-2007, 08:40 PM   #31
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A Fair Tax book in the US.
Should be pretty simple.
Lower taxes, lower taxes, lower taxes...
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Old 03-10-2007, 08:47 PM   #32
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^not to derail the thread, but if you're interested it's actually proposing completely eliminating income tax.

Quote:
Book Description
Wouldn't you love to abolish the IRS ...
Keep all the money in your paycheck ...
Pay taxes on what you spend, not what you earn ...
And eliminate all the fraud, hassle, and waste of our current system?

Then the FairTax is for you. In the face of the outlandish American tax burden, talk-radio firebrand Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder are leading the charge to phase out our current, unfair system and enact the FairTax Plan, replacing the federal income tax and withholding system with a simple 23 percent retail sales tax on new goods and services. This dramatic revision of the current system, which would eliminate the reviled IRS, has already caught fire in the American heartland, with more than six hundred thousand taxpayers signing on in support of the plan.
http://www.amazon.com/FairTax-Book-N.../dp/0060875410


As far as the thread topic, it's a bad idea because it will be abused by people who cannot get over the fact that not everyone wants to be saved by them. If they provide a world religion class, it's perfect for it.

actually I would *personally* prefer it though, I'd be interested to read the whole thing and I'm getting a little sick of the Cautionary Tales Cirriculum (1984, brave new world, farenheit 451, every other book with the same basic plotline and cliche'd characters and Lesson to be Learned).

still, it would be abused, and even if it wasn't, someone would get offended and cause a controversy and it would generally distract from all the learning that's supposedly going on.


by the way, I think I spelt cirriculum wrong. I dunno
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Old 03-10-2007, 08:55 PM   #33
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you don't like dystopian novels? those are my favourite

also, the idea of abolishing the income tax is pretty ridiculous. that's actually required reading for your econ class? terrible. unless you also have to read a book that explains why we need the income tax.
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:10 PM   #34
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As a fundamentalist Christian myself, I am very, very happy to hear this. It'll introduce so many people to a truly life-changing book. I don't even care if they believe it or not; reading the actual text for yourself will cause a person to make up their own opinion, without the usual "OMG THE BIBLE IS PERFECT IN EVERY WAY AND YOU DIE IF YOU DOUBT EVEN A COMMA WITHIN IT" or "Eww...don't listen to those baby-eating Christians " bias you would normally receive from someone else who either grew up in the church or never actually read the book, respectively. I may believe the former, but it's sure not my job to force that thinking on someone else. To read the book objectively and with an open mind is the key.
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:15 PM   #35
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Well, here in Germany we have a guy as well saying we should abandon the income tax and instead introduce a about 40 per cent retail sales tax.
But he hasn't such a strong followership.
Maybe it's because our tax system is so complicated, most people refuse to listen the second they hear or read the word tax

I think you meant curriculum
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
not all that surprising.
fuck, at my high school the Fair Tax book is in the cirriculum for Economics (a required class).
objective analysis my ass, they're not reading the Communist Manifesto anytime soon.

by the way, I live outside of Atlanta.

Of course, the book by that noted and world-famous economist.
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:06 PM   #37
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Another thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is that the Bible is an archetype for so many works of literature. How many books are about characters cast out of a perfect home (Eden), or lured into temptation (Christ in the desert with the Devil), or persecuted for their beliefs, or trying to find their way back after making a terrible mistake (Saul-->Paul)? To me, ignoring the Bible is like ignoring Shakespeare, and doing so is giving kids a skewed version of literature.

I have a lot of beef with the way high school English is taught, but that's for another thread
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint



Of course, the book by that noted and world-famous economist.
the very same.


curriculum. thank you. something about that word. that, and intruiging. intriguing? i don't know. it's always the i's and u's that screw with me apparently.
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:48 PM   #39
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Originally posted by nathan1977
I find it interesting that people assume that "Bible as literature" classes would be taught from one side only. I had a New Testament class my freshman year of college that was taught by an atheist, whose primary aim was to contest the traditional understanding of the Bible. (At times using scholarship that even the Jesus Seminar people would find suspect.) I participated in a Great Books program in high school where the Bible was taught as literature by people keen to debunk it as both history and as literature. I'm not against such agenda-driven indoctrination -- it just goes to show that the knife does cut both ways and that "fundies" are not the only ones who approach the Bible with an agenda.
There's a huge difference between how a public university handles this subject versus public high schools and elementary schools. Universities, for instance, have long shown that they have the academic discipline for these kinds of subjects, and I have zero problem with religious studies departments at the collegiate level.

(And it might interest some to know that I used to work in one of those departments for a time as an undergrad.)

Public high schools and elementary schools, on the other hand, have shown that they do not possess the maturity to handle these kinds of courses. Hell...we're still bickering about evolution and creationism in large parts of the country, so do you really believe that these school districts can teach the Bible from a scholarly POV?

The other problem is that the Supreme Court has already weighed on this issue in the past, and has determined that there is a large difference between collegiate-level religious studies courses and such courses in younger grades. Their reasoning is that colleges are populated by legal adults, and that adults are mature enough to draw their own conclusions about religion and are also mature enough to learn about a religion without feeling "indoctrinated."

Teaching religion in high schools and elementary schools are full of minors who do not possess this maturity. This also protects parental rights, because I'm sure that many devout Christian parents would not appreciate it if, one day, their rebellious child came home and decided that he was a Muslim after learning about Islam in public school religion classes. And, likewise, non-Christian parents also would not appreciate having their children adopt religious beliefs contrary to their own.

As such, I do not believe that it is wise to introduce religion into public high schools and elementary schools at all. If parents want their children to have religious education, feel free to see if your preferred church has Sunday school.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:52 AM   #40
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^ The struggle here naturally being that religion has had an incredible influence on history -- from the Egyptians down to the present time. So obviously we have to figure out how public schools should properly address/approach religion, because saying we're not going to discuss religion is like saying we're going to have a sex ed class without discussing sex.
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:48 AM   #41
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We had some religious classes in the primaries and also in 5th to 7th grade.
But I don't think it influenced anyone.

But it was very basic stuff about religion, also some basics about Islam ,and such discussions as Creationism aren't taking place here.
The first time I heard about this creationism stuff was about two or three years ago, when I learned that there are some people in the US believing that.
Now even some Polish politicians are talking about creationism aain, but they get laughed at every time they even mention the word.
So that won't be any problem for a religious course.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:17 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
^ The struggle here naturally being that religion has had an incredible influence on history -- from the Egyptians down to the present time. So obviously we have to figure out how public schools should properly address/approach religion, because saying we're not going to discuss religion is like saying we're going to have a sex ed class without discussing sex.
Well we can discuss which religion played what part in a historical context without opening a Bible or a Koran.

We don't have religion ed classes in public school, so your analogy falls short.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:14 PM   #43
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well we can discuss which religion played what part in a historical context without opening a Bible or a Koran.

We don't have religion ed classes in public school, so your analogy falls short.
Not really. I'm not saying one has to understand the Bible to understand history. What I am saying is that to divorce religion from the classroom (as Ormus suggested) isn't entirely realistic. You wind up glossing over huge movements of history.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:21 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


Not really. I'm not saying one has to understand the Bible to understand history. What I am saying is that to divorce religion from the classroom (as Ormus suggested) isn't entirely realistic. You wind up glossing over huge movements of history.


i took it not as wanting to divorce religion from the classroom, but to prevent the teaching of religion divorced from the teaching of history. religion-as-history is quite well and good and alive, and every Western kid should learn about Islam, for example. but where we dig our heels in is when we'd teach a class on Islam itself, and not a class on the history of Islam and Islamic societies.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:27 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


Not really. I'm not saying one has to understand the Bible to understand history. What I am saying is that to divorce religion from the classroom (as Ormus suggested) isn't entirely realistic. You wind up glossing over huge movements of history.
But you're missing the point. A sex ed class would be nothing without learning sex. A history class will still be a history class without learning exactly how and what a Muslim worships.
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