The Athiest thread - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-16-2004, 04:54 AM   #91
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 06:23 AM
I just wonder why this thread has such a disproportionate number of Australian posters - seriously it's bugging me out.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 04:58 AM   #92
The Fly
 
NotAnEasyThing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia
Posts: 146
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine
Athiesm is beautiful!

I've been a proud one since the day I was born.

It's late, i'm not fit for in depth philosophical discussion
I know your comment was probably somewhat tongue in cheek, but as a parent my intention (and I think any loving parent would think the same) has always been to raise my kids to have the critical reasoning skills and all the information available to make wise decisions. I would love my kids just as much whether they came to the same or different conclusions as me.

Does being a 'proud' atheist really make sense? What is there to be proud about- if indeed atheism is just the position that there is no God. That kind of 'proud' attitude is what I was meaning in my earlier posts about how most atheists I have come across tend to arrive at their position from a more "reactionary" process.

It is getting late though intedomine, I think I'm starting to fade
__________________

__________________
NotAnEasyThing is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 05:02 AM   #93
The Fly
 
NotAnEasyThing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia
Posts: 146
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I just wonder why this thread has such a disproportionate number of Australian posters - seriously it's bugging me out.
Yeah funny that eh?
__________________
NotAnEasyThing is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 05:08 AM   #94
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 06:23 AM
I prefer people who believe in God but just refuse - thats not to say that I like satanists.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 05:49 AM   #95
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 03:23 PM
It bugs me to hear some people call athiests 'devil worshippers' (I have heard this) they can't be, because if you believe in the devil that's believing in something and you don't believe in anything, right?

I also wonder why there is such a high percentage of non believers in Australia. Maybe it's a godforsaken land?

According to most polls, the people in the US who do believe in SOMETHING(all religions and beliefs together) is always in the 90-95% range. Is it the opposite in Australia?
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 05:52 AM   #96
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 06:23 AM
Pretty much, we have an astonishing ammount of apathy.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 03:36 PM   #97
Blue Crack Addict
 
beli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In a frock in Western Australia
Posts: 15,464
Local Time: 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I just wonder why this thread has such a disproportionate number of Australian posters - seriously it's bugging me out.
Statistically Australia has the worlds highest population of athiests, agnostics, and half-arsed skeptics.

I think (and this is solely me rambling, no scientific basis whatsoever) its because we are a nation of people who, for historical reasons, do not respect authority.

I believe the only country that even comes close to the size of Australias atheist, etc, population is Denmark.

At least I think its Denmark, I cant be bothered to look it up
__________________
beli is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 03:44 PM   #98
Blue Crack Addict
 
beli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In a frock in Western Australia
Posts: 15,464
Local Time: 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by NotAnEasyThing

That is why I find a Bhudist position on sin/suffering so wrong. If you believe in Karma you can look at a little baby starving in Eritrea and just go "oh well, she must have been bad in a former life".
Whats the difference between what you describe and a Christian saying "oh well, its God addressing the imbalance of good versus evil so this AIDs victim must die" ?

Both statments are nasty horrible. Tis why Im not religious.

I also dont like the "forgiveness" concept. I believe if someone has stuffed up then they should address the situation, take charge, apologise to the people effected, and make amends. Not go and tell someone unconnected to the incident and then think everythings okay. I have lost friends with Christians over time as I dont respect them when they dont take ownership of their mistakes.

You might NotAnEasyThing, but some of the ones I have had bad dealings with dont.
__________________
beli is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 03:49 PM   #99
Blue Crack Addict
 
beli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In a frock in Western Australia
Posts: 15,464
Local Time: 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine
What I have always wondered however is whether everyone is born an athiest, and only a few remain that way. Are many people converted from a state of Athiesm, to a belief in a type of god through their social relations.
I often think this too. I have a 4 year old daughter and we haven't taught her anything about these issues. I thought we would wait until she asks. But my mother in law is Irish Catholic and my daughter will come back from staying the night with her Nana and ask ''Why does Nana sit on the floor and ask that God save you Mummy and Daddy? Have you been bad?"
__________________
beli is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 04:02 PM   #100
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by beli


I often think this too. I have a 4 year old daughter and we haven't taught her anything about these issues. I thought we would wait until she asks. But my mother in law is Irish Catholic and my daughter will come back from staying the night with her Nana and ask ''Why does Nana sit on the floor and ask that God save you Mummy and Daddy? Have you been bad?"
Don't you find that really irritating, beli? I do, and it's not even my child. I would just be so pissed. I won't say your mother-in-law wasn't well-meaning, but I think she's being irresponsible and manipulative to make sure she prays, out loud, about you in the presence of your 4-year-old daughter.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 04:05 PM   #101
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 03:23 PM
I'm curious as to what those who are athiests think about this story. Talk amongst yourselves.


Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer

NEW YORK - A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God — more or less — based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

Flew said he's best labeled a deist like Thomas Jefferson, whose God was not actively involved in people's lives.

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

Flew first made his mark with the 1950 article "Theology and Falsification," based on a paper for the Socratic Club, a weekly Oxford religious forum led by writer and Christian thinker C.S. Lewis.

Over the years, Flew proclaimed the lack of evidence for God while teaching at Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele, and Reading universities in Britain, in visits to numerous U.S. and Canadian campuses and in books, articles, lectures and debates.

There was no one moment of change but a gradual conclusion over recent months for Flew, a spry man who still does not believe in an afterlife.

Yet biologists' investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved," Flew says in the new video, "Has Science Discovered God?"

The video draws from a New York discussion last May organized by author Roy Abraham Varghese's Institute for Metascientific Research in Garland, Texas. Participants were Flew; Varghese; Israeli physicist Gerald Schroeder, an Orthodox Jew; and Roman Catholic philosopher John Haldane of Scotland's University of St. Andrews.

The first hint of Flew's turn was a letter to the August-September issue of Britain's Philosophy Now magazine. "It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism," he wrote.

The letter commended arguments in Schroeder's "The Hidden Face of God" and "The Wonder of the World" by Varghese, an Eastern Rite Catholic layman.

This week, Flew finished writing the first formal account of his new outlook for the introduction to a new edition of his "God and Philosophy," scheduled for release next year by Prometheus Books.

Prometheus specializes in skeptical thought, but if his belief upsets people, well "that's too bad," Flew said. "My whole life has been guided by the principle of Plato's Socrates: Follow the evidence, wherever it leads."

Last week, Richard Carrier, a writer and Columbia University graduate student, posted new material based on correspondence with Flew on the atheistic www.infidels.org Web page. Carrier assured atheists that Flew accepts only a "minimal God" and believes in no afterlife.

Flew's "name and stature are big. Whenever you hear people talk about atheists, Flew always comes up," Carrier said. Still, when it comes to Flew's reversal, "apart from curiosity, I don't think it's like a big deal."

Flew told The Associated Press his current ideas have some similarity with American "intelligent design" theorists, who see evidence for a guiding force in the construction of the universe. He accepts Darwinian evolution but doubts it can explain the ultimate origins of life.

A Methodist minister's son, Flew became an atheist at 15.

Early in his career, he argued that no conceivable events could constitute proof against God for believers, so skeptics were right to wonder whether the concept of God meant anything at all.

Another landmark was his 1984 "The Presumption of Atheism," playing off the presumption of innocence in criminal law. Flew said the debate over God must begin by presuming atheism, putting the burden of proof on those arguing that God exists.
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 04:12 PM   #102
Blue Crack Addict
 
beli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In a frock in Western Australia
Posts: 15,464
Local Time: 04:23 AM
(replying to Indras post)

Its a huge issue. Its patronising and disrespectful. As well as just plain bloody rude. She not only prays in front of my daughter she makes my daughter pray for her Mummy and Daddy as well.

It has gotten to the point that we do not allow my daughter to be in her Nanas company on Sundays from 11:00am to 12:00 noon ie mass. My mother in law wants to take her to mass.

If my daughter wakes up one morning and says she wants to go to church I will arrange it but not before. Not if she hasnt asked.

But yeah, free babysittings not worth the cost.
__________________
beli is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 04:22 PM   #103
Blue Crack Addict
 
beli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In a frock in Western Australia
Posts: 15,464
Local Time: 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
A Methodist minister's son, Flew became an atheist at 15.
Sounds like its not the first time he changed his mind.

Seriously I dont care what others do and dont believe. I do my own thang. If anybody can prove to me that God exists then I will change my mind.

I wouldnt mind reading his book though. Will you remind me when its released please? I have lactating brain and will forget.
__________________
beli is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 05:18 PM   #104
Acrobat
 
elevation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 464
Local Time: 09:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by beli


I believe the only country that even comes close to the size of Australias atheist, etc, population is Denmark.

At least I think its Denmark, I cant be bothered to look it up
Don´t know the numbers either but living here, I´m quite sure you´re right... This is REALLY (read: REALLY!) a secular contry
__________________
elevation is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 06:59 PM   #105
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 03:23 PM
What makes some people go one way or the other? Like Bono's mom died when he was 14 and it made him religious. Vladimir Lenin saw his Dad die of the same thing when he was 15 and it made him an athiest. Wonder how it works different with different people.
__________________

__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com