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Old 12-23-2004, 12:57 AM   #301
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I got the mitachlorians, but to be a keeper of the peace or a sith lord
teh s1+}{ /_0R|)z }{4\/3 teh c00/_3s+ saberz, j00 n00b!!11!!one
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:59 AM   #302
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belis pissed off!!!1111!!!! and is refraining from posting.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:03 AM   #303
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Is there something shorter we can call you? Your username is too long lol. NAET will have to do though if you dont want to give us your real name hehe.
I cant blame for you for the actions of others though, nor lump you with them. Sorry if it sounded like I was.

Mmm chips on the beach..where's beli? or will she have replied already by the time i've written this? lol
My name's Leigh. I'd be happy if you called me that or NAET. Either /or just call me "hey you". I'll answer to all of the above.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:09 AM   #304
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belis pissed off!!!1111!!!! and is refraining from posting.
lmao
tell beli to piss off in the other direction then! we have seagulls to feed
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:10 AM   #305
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A lot happens here in 2 days I tell ya. 5 long pages of discussion!

I thought it was simplistic of NotAnEasyThing to come out and say some of the Athiests on here only follow athiesm as a result of irritation with chrsitianity so as a result of our anti christian stance being so strong, we dont even like to consider the fact that there may be a God.

Mate, we wouldnt be posting here if that was the case.

Indeed, history and bible extracts have allowed us to flirt with the idea that God is more than a creator, yet is this really enough for people to succumb to the idea that God really is something more.

But I can accept people to believe in a God, and I feel some theories are plausible including those that deal with the classic idea that "everything must have a beginning."

In

And like I've said I actually do believe in God if God merely is the thing we know bugger all about that "turned the ignition key" of the Universe.

In fact I love it when people offer cases FOR the existence of God who like to separate religion from the idea of GOD. (Because surely God existed before religion?)

But call me stubborn, the reality is i need evidence not theories.

"I'll believe it when I see it for myself"


And someone wrote before about the hypocrisy of athiests when it comes to listening to the "christian" band U2.

It's not what Bono says, it's how he says it when it comes to liking U2.

You like music because of the sound, it's only after you gain appreciation(or in some cases non appreciation) that you start looking for lyrical meaning.

And Bono's lyrics, are not fundamentally christian. Fundamental christians would not write a song like Wake Up Dead Man, because many prefer to acknowledge the "dead man" as still alive.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:13 AM   #306
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ps my name is really anna.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:19 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine
A lot happens here in 2 days I tell ya. 5 long pages of discussion!

I thought it was simplistic of NotAnEasyThing to come out and say some of the Athiests on here only follow athiesm as a result of irritation with chrsitianity so as a result of our anti christian stance being so strong, we dont even like to consider the fact that there may be a God.

Mate, we wouldnt be posting here if that was the case.
Actually intedomine what I said was that I appreciate that there is definately a path of intellectual searching for atheists, but that many of those I have come across tend to indicate the way that they have been pissed off by christians and how that has also had an impact on their position. I wasn't even specifically refering to people on this thread. Although since I first posted that comment there have been a couple of comments along these lines from atheists.

Cheers,
Leigh
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:21 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
ps my name is really anna.
Hi anna, pleased to meet you.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:26 AM   #309
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And likewise my dear!

On topic though for a moment, yu can probably count me as one of those people who steer clear of religion partly because of those who follow it. And I mean the bad eggs. Those who bring their belief a bad name. Perpetuate it's reputation through a cycle of ongoing blah blah blah. I've mentioned this enough already lol, my reasons for not liking what I see. But I dont see it as any great loss as slapping a label on myself or going to church regularly is not going ot take me closer to god. I dont even know what there is to believe, most of what I reckon is based on an assumption that there has to be something out there. Something made us all, made everything around us, and no building on this earth no matter how pretty it's windows will contain any answers which can cause me to feel 100% that I'm on the right path. So instead I'll hang back and let it take a backseat.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:35 AM   #310
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No worries anna! I respect your candor and your willingness to discuss your views in a thread like this.
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:09 AM   #311
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Ok thats all cool and cleared up thanks Leigh.
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:40 AM   #312
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i believe in love

but love is god..

so i am a believer..congratulate me....


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Old 12-23-2004, 02:10 PM   #313
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"And Bono's lyrics, are not fundamentally christian. Fundamental christians would not write a song like Wake Up Dead Man, because many prefer to acknowledge the "dead man" as still alive."

-Really? Do you really know what Wake up Dead Man is about?

Im not a religious fanatic, U2 is the only thing that has a christian message, that I listen to. But the basis of U2 songs (the majority at least) with any scrutiny and well researched analysis, will lead you to the bible.

What do you think Vertigo is about? "You give me something I can feel"

Elevation? "I believe in you... I need you to elevate me"

Beautiful Day? "after the floods all the colors came out. Teach me lord/I know im not a hopeless case/What you dont know you can feel it somehow"

I dont believe in todays brand of christianity. I am Christian because I follow the teachings of Jesus and acknowledge his deity, but wont buy into the moral propaganda that is being fed in order to scare the sh*t out of people, especially in the USA.

Bono says it best "I believe in the kingdom come, where the colors will bleed into one... I still havent found what im looking for" ....

Today's brand of human christian teachings(especially after these bias red-neck preachers get up at the podium) leads me sometimes further away from god, and farther away from the 6 billion other humans on this planet.

Thank god for U2, to make sense of it all. These guys exemplify the true meaning of christianity in all their songs.
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:30 PM   #314
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NotAnEasyThing

In my youth I did a great deal of investigating into Second Social Neo-Darwinism (or whatever it was up to at the time), Lamarck, Morgan, Morris, you name it, I read it. Thats for evolution.

Then theres the whole big bang theory, dinosaurs disappearance, again, you name it, I read it.

There is no "Unified Atheism Theory" so each issue of belief is an individual one. That was my avenue of investigation, and my interest. But that was a while a go, and my readings are well out of date, as is the nature of science. A Wanderer is doing an excellent job of describing recent theories. I was not particularly interested in the bible. Thats my call. That does not make your views any more valid than mine nor anyone elses in this thread.

As for the theism issue -. Atheists deny the existence of all gods. Some Christians deny the existence of all gods, except for one. How does that work? How can a person believe that all gods dont exist except for their own?

My husbands uncle is a father /brother and believes in all gods/spirits. Christianity, Shamanism, you name it, it has substance according to Anthony. And I respect him immensely for it. A beautiful person he is.

Please explain how you can believe in one god and dismiss the rest? Please do not use the bible as a reference point. I am not talking about religion, Im talking about Theism. The bible is not evidence any more than the Iliad is evidence of Troy. Heinrich Schliemann, an idol of mine, discovered the remains of Troy - the walls, the jewelery, etc. This is evidence. The Iliad is not. There is geological evidence of a "great flood" of sorts. This is evidence. The bible story of Noah is not.

Please refrain from "I know and have known several atheist or people claiming to be atheist, more often than not after we've talked about these issues in greater depth they would probably better decribed as agnostic'.

Also, I never said all Christians annoy me. You said that. I said some of the fundamentalist ones on this website annoy me. You also said that I was "browned off" about Christianity because I attended an Anglican school. Again, I did not say that. You said that. etc. Please refrain.
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:39 PM   #315
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swissair, this is not meant to be a debate about U2 lyrics. I don't think any of those who have been posting regularly would disagree about the underlying christian content in their songs. And "Wake up dead man" is about the feelings of a 'Job'-like character who is feeling like God is silent. It's a lot like many of the psalms.

But while I can agree with you that U2 help to 'make sense of it all', I don't think that means it is unreasonable for those who have an atheist view of life getting something different and yet equally as meaningful out of the music.

But this thread is really an opportunity to explore the issue of atheism and this is in no way out of place on a U2 fan site.
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