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Old 12-22-2004, 11:01 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli


I was raised an atheist as were my parents. It has NOTHING to do with a reaction to the bible/jesus. I did not know Christianity was still alive until I was 11 years old. I keep saying that because that is the truth.
I hear that Beli. Just that you seemed by your description of the anglican school experience to be browned off. Tell me, rather than me assume, what is your impression of christians.

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That its feasible, possible. ie there would be evidence that the event could possibly occur.
But you are still left with the underlying question of what is to be made of it.
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You are seriously coming across as a patronising Christian now. Its not a matter of being entitled to choose not to. Its about what Im entitled to choose (ie in the positive). I am an atheist because that is what I believe. I t has NOTHING to do with a rejection of the bible.

Nobody has any "credibility" in this argument. Its all personal beliefs.
Please explain how I patronised you. If I did it was not intentional. I was only making the point that it seems unreasonable to to accept a position and argue for it with credibility if you have not examined the facts pertaining the contrary view. Isn't that just logical? I'd expect you to hold me to the same scrutiny.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:17 PM   #287
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Originally posted by NotAnEasyThing


I hear that Beli. Just that you seemed by your description of the anglican school experience to be browned off.
When did I say that? You asked when I read the bible. I answered the question.


Quote:
Originally posted by NotAnEasyThing

Tell me, rather than me assume, what is your impression of christians.
The ones here? Or the ones in real life? I dont know a whole lot of Christians. I live in Perth. Most of the people here are Spiritualists or atheist/agnostic/dont give a stuff. Or Seikhs, or...........
My mother in law is Catholic but I havent known her very long, shes only just moved to Perth.

The Christians on this web site annoy me. Especially the fundamentalist USA ones.


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But you are still left with the underlying question of what is to be made of it.
No. There is only a question if its provable. If pathenogenisis is not possible then there is no underlying question. The bit in the bible did not happen. Which is what I believe. If it is proven then, yes, it does raise questions.

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Please explain how I patronised you. If I did it was not intentional. I was only making the point that it seems unreasonable to to accept a position and argue for it with credibility if you have not examined the facts pertaining the contrary view. Isn't that just logical? I'd expect you to hold me to the same scrutiny.
Why is Christanity the contrary view to atheism? Theism is the contrary view to atheism. Christianity is one of many contrary views to irreligion.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:28 PM   #288
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Isn't that what atheists accuse christians of?
Can I ask how many atheists you actually know? And what kind of atheists are they? "Athiest" is a term for people who do not believe in god (s), it is not an a term for a group of people with similiar actions/customs/ code of conduct. What kind of atheists have accused Christians of not checking out the facts?
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:29 PM   #289
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:33 PM   #290
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LOL. Whats up? Come on, spew it out.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:41 PM   #291
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Originally posted by NotAnEasyThing


Actually indra, this is what I have been at pains to explain. When it comes to Christianity there is something substantive to base belief on. But sure, in the end it comes down to can I be bothered? When it comes to something that to me seems so integral to life- as far as I'm concerned I can't afford not to be bothered.

Incidently my comment to Beli was that there doesn't seem much credibility to arriving at a conclusion without checking out all the facts. Isn't that what atheists accuse christians of?
Actually, I think what is most irritating about so many Christians to atheists/agnostics is that you are so sure you are right. Because when it comes right down to it, your "proof" is belief, and while it works for you, it doesn't for me. You see something substantive to base your belief on, and I don't deny the existance of Jesus and various followers, but I don't think he was the son of God (and I don't think there is a God anyway). I think Jesus was a man ahead of his time (and perhaps a bit of a nutjob, not a bad nutjob, mind you...just a bit delusional), but not divine.

You can point out what you think of as proof all day and night, but when it comes down to it, it's all belief. You believe. I don't.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:45 PM   #292
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Haha well, amid the fury and rising hoityness in here, I did admire how you finally came clean. You know what I mean You're braver than I, but then I've had to hide all these years. Woe. I still got called biased, but what they hey. Yes Christians can be annoying. And there's a shitload of them that are. A concentrated number in this forum who are too rude to ever answer things directly, and instead use childish and thoroughly insulting methods of getting their points across. NotAnEasyThing has been a nice change. Truly. I'd love to sit with both of you on a beach somewhere eating 1/4 bbq chicken and chips (with gravy + chicken salt), throwing the crusty chips to the seagulls and discussing all the things which shit us in life.
I dunno. I dont want this to become a huge fight but I always get the feeling Christians are standing on the other side of a chasm and they're looking back when they talk to me or whoever and are saying "ha! come on, we made the lap, what are you scared?" It's this painful combination of righteousness, piety, smugness, gloating and outward disregard. Inward there's a party. They joined the club. They're happy. Why am I always made to feel there is something wrong with how I feel? About the only aspect of Christianity I'm interested in is when it changed. I'm deadset curious about these changes Constantine made and how religion became what it is today. I'm not sure if it's more the history or what. Probably the history. I love a good drama, and what better than how this could all be based on a lie. Or lots of lies.

But I reckon you bnoth stopped listening to each other, which is why I'd rather see us on a beach somewhere throwing chips at the gulls and wondering how the HELL they are dirtier than pigeons??????

So yeah No sympathy lol.

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Old 12-22-2004, 11:56 PM   #293
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I swear I'm gonna start the heathen thread. I feel an urge to dance nekkid in the snow and sleet and howl at the sky!
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:14 AM   #294
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I've got to agree that there are some bloody annoying christians or at least that claim christianity as some kind of badge. And yes they often do come accross like they are "right" and everyone else wrong. Angela, your chasm analogy really describes this well. I sincerely apologise to anyone who might have taken any of my posts here to be arogant, self righteous, smug etc. It is very difficult in the context of a few lines of text to convey the tone of what is beeing said. I know that smilies are meant to do that- but I'm crap at using them. So sorry, but that is not how I feel.

The irony of all this is that the at the core of a Christian approach to life is the concept of accepting that you don't have it all together. And boy, i sure don't. I'm just trying to talk with you about my own journey, and I actually get a lot out of hearing your experience too. As this is the atheist thread, it is something I'm interested in. If I were just a someone who thought I knew it all I'd come in leave some sanctamoneous response and leave (as some have done). But I'm still here, just trying to be myself and respect others. Angela that 1/4 chicken & chips on the beach idea sounds very inviting, I'd like that too (especially the gravy).
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:37 AM   #295
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Beli, just to answer a few things you mentioned;

-Christians annoy you. I guess you would say this doesn't influence how you feel about the Bible/Jesus. But does it?

-You are quite correct to say theism is the opposite view of atheism. My point was that christianity is one of the major versions of theism- so doesn't it get a look in when it comes to examining what evidence is out there ? Check out the evidence for others too, as I've done. The more information, the greater certainity one can have. If you believe there's nothing in it, it can only give your atheism more credibility.

-I know and have known several atheist or people claiming to be atheist, more often than not after we've talked about these issues in greater depth they would probably better decribed as agnostic. As for examples of those who have accused christians of not checking the facts, I need not go any further than this thread to demonstrate:
Quote:
Originally posted by beli

errrm. A belief in a god requires faith, which by definition does not require evidence.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:43 AM   #296
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on a lighter note, the way of the Jedi is also an atheist religion.

The Force is not a god, it is created by all living things, not the creator of all living things. But the Jedi code is certainly a set of values, beliefs, traditions, and rules.



my my my, I'm such a geek.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:51 AM   #297
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Thanks for the light relief UL! I love star wars!
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:54 AM   #298
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I found a funny picture, but it was too big.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:54 AM   #299
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Is there something shorter we can call you? Your username is too long lol. NAET will have to do though if you dont want to give us your real name hehe.
I cant blame for you for the actions of others though, nor lump you with them. Sorry if it sounded like I was.

Mmm chips on the beach..where's beli? or will she have replied already by the time i've written this? lol
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:55 AM   #300
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I got the mitachlorians, but to be a keeper of the peace or a sith lord
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