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Old 11-10-2006, 08:04 PM   #16
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Re: The American People Have Spoken

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I have seen it said in here that the 2004 election was proof positive that the American people believed that the President was correct on Iraq.

What does the latest election prove? The opposite? Or Something else.....
In November 2006, it shows that the majority of Americans have reversed their support for the war from where it was 2 years earlier, although there were not 122 million people voting in this election. The majority of the American public now no longer supports the war and wants to leave, regardless of the repercussions it seems. Sunni insurgents now have a big sign that their strategy might be working. Their obviously not strong enough to defeat the American forces occupying their country, but if they can convince the American public that the cost of the war is too great, not worth it, etc, then they can secure the premature withdrawal of US forces that they desire, which removes their biggest obstacle to re-establishing control.
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Old 11-10-2006, 08:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
So was the 2004 election proof positive that the American Public believed in the Iraq war?
Of course! There is nothing more costly or serious than a war and the country's vote for Bush and the Republicans in congress was a vote of approval for the policies at the time. Its the most important issue, and the voters selected Bush.
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:30 PM   #18
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wrong.

in 2004, the perceived threat of terrorism, here and abroad, was the #1 issue.

in 2006, the #1 issue was Iraq.

perhaps the American people simply need to read 1441 more closely?
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:46 PM   #19
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Bravo!

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
perhaps the American people simply need to read 1441 more closely?


Well played.

And a very good point about terrorism vs the war in Iraq.
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Old 11-10-2006, 10:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
wrong.

in 2004, the perceived threat of terrorism, here and abroad, was the #1 issue.

in 2006, the #1 issue was Iraq.

perhaps the American people simply need to read 1441 more closely?
I think your initial points are excellent...

I think Jay Leno could do his guy on the street walking by routine with resolution 1441.
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Old 11-11-2006, 12:37 AM   #21
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Re: Re: The American People Have Spoken

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock
and we're back to the focus-group politics of the 90's.
Could you elaborate on exactly what you mean by 'focus-group politics'?
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Old 11-11-2006, 02:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
wrong.

in 2004, the perceived threat of terrorism, here and abroad, was the #1 issue.

in 2006, the #1 issue was Iraq.

perhaps the American people simply need to read 1441 more closely?
The vast majority of US troops overseas were deployed in Iraq at the time. The majority of US expenditures overseas were in Iraq and the majority of US casaulties were also in Iraq. The United States had not been hit by a terrorist attack in over 3 years. US troops were gearing up for a major offensive into fallujah. The fact of the matter is, the most important issue to this country for the past 3 and half years has been Iraq. In 2004, an election with over 122 million people voting, for the first time since 1988, a majority of Americans voted for the winning president and for the first time in 40 years, the incumbents party picked up seats in congress instead of losing them. A majority of the American public supported the war in 2004 helping George Bush win re-election despite pathetic liberal movies like Michael Moore's fahrenheit 9/11.
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Old 11-11-2006, 02:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


The vast majority of US troops overseas were deployed in Iraq at the time. The majority of US expenditures overseas were in Iraq and the majority of US casaulties were also in Iraq. The United States had not been hit by a terrorist attack in over 3 years. US troops were gearing up for a major offensive into fallujah. The fact of the matter is, the most important issue to this country for the past 3 and half years has been Iraq. In 2004, an election with over 122 million people voting, for the first time since 1988, a majority of Americans voted for the winning president and for the first time in 40 years, the incumbents party picked up seats in congress instead of losing them. A majority of the American public supported the war in 2004 helping George Bush win re-election despite pathetic liberal movies like Michael Moore's fahrenheit 9/11.
Yeep.
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Old 11-11-2006, 06:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


The vast majority of US troops overseas were deployed in Iraq at the time. The majority of US expenditures overseas were in Iraq and the majority of US casaulties were also in Iraq. The United States had not been hit by a terrorist attack in over 3 years. US troops were gearing up for a major offensive into fallujah. The fact of the matter is, the most important issue to this country for the past 3 and half years has been Iraq. In 2004, an election with over 122 million people voting, for the first time since 1988, a majority of Americans voted for the winning president and for the first time in 40 years, the incumbents party picked up seats in congress instead of losing them. A majority of the American public supported the war in 2004 helping George Bush win re-election despite pathetic liberal movies like Michael Moore's fahrenheit 9/11.
Fear is an extremely effective motivator.
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Old 11-11-2006, 07:42 AM   #25
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I strongly believe, sadly, I might add...that Bush did not win because of terrorism, or Iraq.

According to the CNN election polling on the day of the 2004 election....

Morality was the number one issue Followed by the Economy, and then Terrorism.

I think the Ballot initiatives of Gay marriage put Bush over the top in the election.

[Q]
Arkansas Passed Bush 6 EC Votes
Georgia Passed Bush 15 EC Votes
Kentucky PAssed Bush 8 EC Votes
Michigan Passed Kerry 17 EC Votes
Montana Passed Bush 3 EC Votes
North Dakot Passed Bush 3 EC Votes
Ohio Passed Bush 20 EC Votes
Oregon Passed Kerry 7 EC Votes
Utah Passed Bush 5 EC Votes
[/Q]

If morality was the number one issue, and you look at the states with this Ballot Initiative I think it supports my point.

Now, Ohio as I remember it was the deciding state.

The exit polling in Ohio had the following results:

[Q]MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE

Economy/Jobs 24%
MORAL VALUES 23%
Terrorism 17%
Iraq 13%
Taxes 6%
Education 5%
Health Care 5% [/Q]


In Ohio the exit polling showed this about the Iraq War:

[Q]HOW ARE THINGS GOING FOR U.S. IN IRAQ?

Well 45%
Badly 50% [/Q]

They were not voting on Iraq in Ohio.

Gay Marriage was defeated in 100% of the counties reporting back in Ohio. Bush won 100% of the counties in Ohio.

I think that at the time, the majority of voters did not feel that Iraq was going well at the time. Something else put Ohio in Bush's corner.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004//pa...ounty.000.html
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Old 11-11-2006, 07:57 AM   #26
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A HUGE difference in this election......

According to CNN exit pollings here in 2006 the number one issue important issue was....

THE WAR IN IRAQ not MORALITY

And Wouldn't you know it.....Of the states in the 2004 Election that voted AGAINST same sex Marriage the following elected Democrats this time around:

Montana Senate
Ohio Senate
Arkansas Governor
Ohio Governor
Kentucky house of Representative
Ohio House of Representatives

I see Ohio Changing Two Major positions over.....

No Gay marriage initiative to bring out the vote.
No Morality as an issue.....

Iraq was the issue THIS TIME....not in 2004.
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
A HUGE difference in this election......

According to CNN exit pollings here in 2006 the number one issue important issue was....

THE WAR IN IRAQ not MORALITY

And Wouldn't you know it.....Of the states in the 2004 Election that voted AGAINST same sex Marriage the following elected Democrats this time around:

Montana Senate
Ohio Senate
Arkansas Governor
Ohio Governor
Kentucky house of Representative
Ohio House of Representatives

I see Ohio Changing Two Major positions over.....

No Gay marriage initiative to bring out the vote.
No Morality as an issue.....

Iraq was the issue THIS TIME....not in 2004.
Your presuming that such exit polling is an accurate reflection of over 122 million people. Lets not forget that such exits polls also indicated that John Kerry, not George Bush was going to be the winner that night.

Even if such exit polling was correct, voters do not simply vote on just ONE issue and morality, terrorism, and even the economy are issues that overlap with Iraq for many people. So voting for anyone of those three could be seen as a vote in support of the Iraq war.

At a minimum, if you believe the exit polling is accurate and other stated reasons do not overlap, it shows that most people were not against the war in Iraq in 2004, since any serious opposition to a war would be expressed as the #1 issue, given the seriousness and impact it has on the country.

It would be extremely absurd to suggest that the Iraq war was not an issue in 2004. More Americans were killed and wounded in Iraq in 2004 than in any other year of the war. The United States has been spending several Billion dollars a week on the war. There is simply no other issue that impacts the country more when it comes to costs than the Iraq war and that is what people vote up or down on in elections, regardless of what CNN exit polling of a fraction of the people voting claims to reveal.
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Old 11-11-2006, 12:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2

It would be extremely absurd to suggest that the Iraq war was not an issue in 2004. More Americans were killed and wounded in Iraq in 2004 than in any other year of the war. The United States has been spending several Billion dollars a week on the war. There is simply no other issue that impacts the country more when it comes to costs than the Iraq war and that is what people vote up or down on in elections, regardless of what CNN exit polling of a fraction of the people voting claims to reveal.
Did not suggest it was not an issue....It was not the issue of importance.

I think what I have posted speaks for itself. The War on Terror was more important than the Iraq war in 2004. The Economy was more important than the war on terror...but the number one issue was Morality in 2004.

Trash the exit polls all you want. They speak volumes.

And I think it laughable that you would dismiss the victory in Ohio as anything but a referendum on morality.
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Old 11-11-2006, 12:44 PM   #29
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Nah...I do not know what I am talking about at all...

[Q]Ohio may have lost a couple hundred thousand jobs during the tenure of President Bush, but Kerry, despite all his trips to the state, couldn't turn it from red to blue. Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, another conservative group that spent many hundreds of thousands of dollars on the gay marriage issue, said yesterday that Ohio and Pennsylvania have similar demographics. Bush won Ohio, and Kerry won Pennsylvania. The difference, he argues, was that Ohio's ballot included an amendment to ban gay marriage. [/Q]

[Q]To understand why America skewed red on Election Day, you might talk to Gary Bauer, the conservative activist, former Republican candidate for president and creator of an organization called Americans United to Preserve Marriage.

The group spent a million dollars in Ohio, Michigan and across the country. It warned voters that a nation led by John Kerry might be one in which homosexuals could get married -- and not just two at a time.

"Most Americans don't want to sit down and explain to their children why they live in a country where men can marry men, why there's polygamy -- because that would naturally follow, we would argue," Bauer said yesterday.
[/Q]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Nov3.html
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Old 11-11-2006, 12:49 PM   #30
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I have now found three different exit polls from 2004 that list MORAL Values as the number one thing that concerned them as they voted in 2004.

Shall I post them all....or are they all wrong?
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