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Old 06-13-2002, 01:25 PM   #46
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Northern Virginia is very wealthy compared to DC, and the Maryland side. I use to live in Springfield. It is this absence of poverty in Northern VA that results in a lower crime rate and there for low death rate from firearms. But for those in engaged in illegal activities in DC and who want weapons, circumventing the strict gun laws there is done by just taking a drive in a car or catching a bus or the subway to area's with liberal gun laws.

Fizzing,
Thats interesting to hear how few actually hunt in the UK and of course points to the low level of gun ownership in the UK which I believe is resposible for the low rate of death from firearms there.
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Old 06-13-2002, 03:17 PM   #47
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http://www.projectexile.com/


Virginia also has Project Exile...if you are caught commiting a crime and are in possesion of an illegal weapon...its an automatic five years in prison...and also remember Virginia has no parole.


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Old 06-13-2002, 11:16 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by dream wanderer
...and also remember Virginia has no parole.
I like that program of Truth-in-Sentencing.

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Old 06-14-2002, 04:32 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Melon,
Interesting info. Do you have an idea of how popular hunting is in the UK or how many people have hunting Rifles. I have also heard about the CCTV and it has been very helpful in combating the IRA.
Honestly? I don't know this for sure, but I don't think hunting is popular at all there. I think it is mostly a sport for nobility. Anyone from the U.K. here care to clarify? I don't wish to make a fool out of myself, because perception is often different than reality.

What does anger me a bit is the fact that the NRA tried to say that Al Gore was going to ban all guns, including hunting rifles. On the contrary, I don't know many gun control advocates who are looking for an absolute ban on guns; mostly those guns whose sole purpose is to kill people.

The idea of CCTV really impressed me when there was a car bombing in Ealing (suburb of London) when I was over there. The exploding car was right there, caught on tape. Obviously now, I'd have many issues with CCTV being used without the public's knowledge, as well as it being used in private areas, but I certainly do not see a problem with it in public areas, where you really don't have privacy anyway. This would certainly be a great crime deterrant, in my opinion.

Quote:
I do think that over time more restrictive gun laws can be instituted in the USA and I feel that the 2nd amendment should be amended. I don't look at things as being impossible and believe given time and effort, positive developments can take place.
The Second Amendment isn't as simple as the far-right would like to think, but it certainly isn't new news over the fact that it is a difficult amendment to interpret. Of course, it certainly doesn't help that the Second Amendment itself is a run-on sentence:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The key phrase that certainly encourages gun control is the idea of the "well regulated Militia." Regardless of the interpretation of this amendment, the Second Amendment only bars federal action, not state or private action.

From FindLaw.com:

"In United States v. Miller (1939), the Court sustained a statute requiring registration under the National Firearms Act of sawed-off shotguns. After reciting the original provisions of the Constitution dealing with the militia, the Court observed that ''[w]ith obvious purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of such forces the declaration and guarantee of the Second Amendment were made. It must be interpreted with that end in view.'' The significance of the militia, the Court continued, was that it was composed of ''civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.'' It was upon this force that the States could rely for defense and securing of the laws, on a force that ''comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense,'' who, ''when called for service . . . were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.'' Therefore, ''[i]n the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well- regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.''

Thoughts?

Melon
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Old 06-14-2002, 04:37 PM   #50
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Damn, STING2, I must say again that what you write is very well-written, and I'm admittedly not a registered Republican.

At least no one can accuse me of not giving people credit where due...

Melon
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Old 06-15-2002, 04:06 PM   #51
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Thanks Melon. That was interesting quote from United States Vs Miller. Most civilian firearms are of course not used by the military. While I think Achtung Bubba is a registered Republican as well, you can see we have widely different opinions on these issues. The Republican and Democratic parties are very big tents. Some accuse them of being one party rather than two. The perfect political party for me would be one that would hold a combination of views from the Democratic and Republican parties. Perhaps in another thread I'll state what I'd like that party to be for and like.
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Old 06-23-2002, 06:19 AM   #52
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The American Freedom?

What's so American about freedom?

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Old 06-23-2002, 04:01 PM   #53
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In this discussion, the only "US freedoms" I came across (at least in this thread) were the right to carry arms and a lot of talk about taxes. Somehow I don't get the idea these are the freedoms people have in mind when I hear them sing the national anthem etc.
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Old 06-23-2002, 08:02 PM   #54
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Well Americans are very lucky and have freedoms we obviously don't realize or take for granted.

Freedom to work, marry, and live where we choose
Marry whom we want to (in relation to pre-arranged marriages that go on in a lot of middle-east countries)

Freedom to serve our country or not to serve-our choice

Freedom of speech, I don't know if that was mentioned. Obviously gun ownership, since it is the main thing this thread talks about.

Legal defense for free, albeit not the best, but it's better than automatically having your hand chopped off for stealing like they do in SAUDI ARABIA. Speaking of SAUDI, If women over there were allowed to talk I bet they would say a lot of the American Freedom that we take for granted.
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Old 06-23-2002, 08:42 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge
Freedom to...marry....
Marry whom we want to...
If only this were really true...

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Old 06-23-2002, 08:43 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
In this discussion, the only "US freedoms" I came across (at least in this thread) were the right to carry arms and a lot of talk about taxes. Somehow I don't get the idea these are the freedoms people have in mind when I hear them sing the national anthem etc.
I wouldn't knock low taxes. A low tax rate reflects, I believe, a high respect for property rights, and a lot of people believe that, without property rights, the right to vote and exercise free speech are merely academic.

It seems to me that the freedoms much of the Western world enjoy - with the U.S. perhaps enjoying more freedoms than others - reduce to more or less four groups:

- Economic rights (capitalism: particularly property rights)
- Political rights (small-'r' republicanism: free speech, the right to vote, the right to assemble)
- Religious rights (pluralism: the right to worship, church-state separation)
- Arms rights, the right to self defense

In the worst case of tyranny, the fourth right is what ensures the other three, IMHO.
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Old 06-23-2002, 09:30 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


If only this were really true...

Melon
Okay I see your point here

I meant in terms of / or in relationship to other countries where marriages are pre-arranged for whatever reason. I think in one or two (correct me if i am wrong) states it is legal to marry persons of the same sex, while in other states like mine it probably never will be. But we are making progress in that area I believe.
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Old 06-23-2002, 09:43 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge
Freedom of speech
exactly. while i'm not the biggest fan of america, i can say there are many countries where we couldn't be having this conversation, because the government would've already come in and locked us in a dungeon, or just killed us.
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Old 06-23-2002, 10:07 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes


exactly. while i'm not the biggest fan of america, i can say there are many countries where we couldn't be having this conversation, because the government would've already come in and locked us in a dungeon, or just killed us.
An example would be Iraq, where if you oppose the Regime they might just put you in a "container" (for lack of better term) of acid that will eat you away slowly until you are dead.
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Old 06-23-2002, 10:42 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge




Freedom of speech
Watch out on this one.. At this moment, you do not have the ability to speak in support/attack a candidate 60 days before the election...

And with the S. Court's recent ruling in succumbing to public opinion.. Who knows??..

L.Unplugged
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