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Old 08-01-2005, 07:13 AM   #106
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Originally posted by STING2




1,224,611 people voted for other candidates.


Why are this people not represented in the white house i mean, those people have no voice in national politics i guess.
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Old 08-01-2005, 11:07 AM   #107
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Upon what do you base that "chance"? Bush had been in ofice less than a year, and had made no big waves at that time.
I dunno, chaos theory if anything. A butterfly flaps its wings and all that. Perhaps if Gore is president, some little change somewhere in the chain events is shifted just enough that a CIA agent takes a bit more notice of a flight school in Arizona, or an airline timetable is shifted around to acccomodate President Gore flying into NYC that day, or a hundred little things that would've gone differently.
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Old 08-01-2005, 11:47 AM   #108
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Originally posted by PopFly


I dunno, chaos theory if anything. A butterfly flaps its wings and all that. Perhaps if Gore is president, some little change somewhere in the chain events is shifted just enough that a CIA agent takes a bit more notice of a flight school in Arizona, or an airline timetable is shifted around to acccomodate President Gore flying into NYC that day, or a hundred little things that would've gone differently.
On that level of analysis, we could have faced multiple 9/11 type attacks if Gore were elected....
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Old 08-01-2005, 12:38 PM   #109
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It was basically inevitable.
That's why I think it's silly to blame Bush or Clinton. It hardly mattered who the President was. AL Qaeda wasn't going to 'cancel' the plot if Gore had won Florida.

Maybe Bush should have paid more attention to the memos and maybe Clinton should have been more proactive, but an attack on this scale was going to happen sooner or later.

It was going to take something like this to get the public support for truly fighting it. It wasn't there in 1998 or August 2001.

It seems to me the difference is what happened after the public was truly united to take it on. Would Gore have pissed it all away?
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Old 08-01-2005, 07:51 PM   #110
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Originally posted by Rono
Why are this people not represented in the white house i mean, those people have no voice in national politics i guess.
Just because their candidate did not win a race for political office does not mean they do not have a voice in national politics.
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Old 08-01-2005, 09:11 PM   #111
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Originally posted by STING2 How many dictators over the past 20 years have invaded and attacked four different countries,
Iraq, Somalia, Haiti, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia.

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threatened most of the planets energy supply with sabotage or seizure,
Getting in bed with the Saudis and effectively using them as puppets to control oil supply.

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used WMD more times than any other leader in history,
Poison gas - 1917-1918
Atomic bombs - 1945
Repeated nuclear weapons tests - 1945-1992
Ballistic missile defense tests - 1980-Present

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murdered 1.7 million people,
Blockade of Cuba - over 75,000 dead (directly and indirectly)
Invasion of Iraq - over 100,000 dead
Two atomic bombs - over 350,000 dead (directly and indirectly)
Killing of own citizens (as punishment) - over 5,000 dead
Plus countless others in smaller-scale wars and police actions.

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violated a Ceacefire Agreement,
Bay of Pigs invasion - 1961

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been engaged in a multi-Billion dollar smuggling,
Thousands of illegal immigrants granted work visas without background checks every year.

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and failed to account for thousands of stocks of WMD as required by UN resolutions?
Chemical weapons - over 20,000 tons
Nuclear weapons - over 10,000 individual warheads

This nation is the United States of America.

Double standard?
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Old 08-02-2005, 06:30 PM   #112
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Originally posted by DaveC


Iraq, Somalia, Haiti, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia.



Getting in bed with the Saudis and effectively using them as puppets to control oil supply.



Poison gas - 1917-1918
Atomic bombs - 1945
Repeated nuclear weapons tests - 1945-1992
Ballistic missile defense tests - 1980-Present



Blockade of Cuba - over 75,000 dead (directly and indirectly)
Invasion of Iraq - over 100,000 dead
Two atomic bombs - over 350,000 dead (directly and indirectly)
Killing of own citizens (as punishment) - over 5,000 dead
Plus countless others in smaller-scale wars and police actions.



Bay of Pigs invasion - 1961



Thousands of illegal immigrants granted work visas without background checks every year.



Chemical weapons - over 20,000 tons
Nuclear weapons - over 10,000 individual warheads

This nation is the United States of America.

Double standard?
#1 The United States did not launch any unprovoked invasions of Iraq, Somalia, Haiti, Afghanistan, or Yugoslavia.

a. Every US action against Iraq has been approved by the United Nations and been conducted with a coalition of nations.

b. The United States went into Somalia because it was the only country positioned to aid that country with delivery of food to the starving population. Liberals pushed hard for this particular action.

c. The United States responded to the problem in Haiti after months of a constant flow of refugees into Florida.

d. The United States invaded Afghanistan after the Taliban failed to deliver Bin Ladin and other Al Quada members and were found to be working with Al Quada and Bin Ladin. This happened within one month after Al Quada had attacked the WTC killing 3,000 Americans and people from other countries.

e. In the former Yugoslavia, the United States and other NATO countries finally intervened to stop the fighting in Bosnia that had already taken over 250,000 lives. They were successful in stopping the fighting and brought stability to the area so much so, that in September of 1997, U2 brought their POPMART tour to the Capital. During the concert, BONO praised the US troops success in ending the Bosnian war. In Kosovo, the United States and NATO responded to the gross human rights tragedy unfolding there brought on by Serb Ethnic cleansing. The United States and NATO successfully brought a level of stability to Kosovo that the Serbs had failed to, partly because the goals of Milosovic did not really involve safety and stability for the Muslim population.





The United States is not in bed with the Saudi's to control oil supplies. The whole world purchases Saudi oil and Saudi Arabia has often made up for shortages that often occur in Iraq, Russia and Venezuela. Saudi oil has helped keep energy prices around the world low and has helped the planets economy grow.



Saddam has used WMD more times on the battlefield than any other leader in history. Truman from the United States used the Atomic Bomb twice in 1945.


The blockade of Cuba is the fault of Castro and his Communist supporters. 100,000 civilians have not been killed by the invasion of Iraq. Most of the civilians that have died since the end of the initial invasion have died from terrorist acts committed by Saddam loyalist and Al Quada. Its true that thousands of civilians died in the Atomb Bomb blast in 1945 over Japan, but Japan surrendered because of the use of the Bombs. If Japan had not surrendered, the US Air Command would have continued its campaign, and Japan would have been invaded in the Spring of 1946. Millions of Japanese citizens would have been killed in the fighting. The use of the Atomic Bombs prevented this from happening.



The United States has never been required by the United Nations to disarm of its WMD's because it had unlawfully invaded another country as Saddam's Iraq had as well as because it had used such weapons on a massive scale unlawfully.



Double Standard?

No, the two are not even comparable, disregarding the inaccurate information used to attempt a comparison. Saddam is one leader that was in control of Iraq for 25 years. The United States is a country that has had dozens of leaders over the past 225 years. I don't understand the desperate attempt to make Saddam look like a saint by comparing him to the alleged evils of a country that has been around for over 2 century's. This just proves that not only is Saddam one of the most terrible leaders in history, Saddam has done far more harm to the planet than most countries have over several hundred years.
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