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Old 07-28-2005, 03:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2




Lame Army? Invaded and attacked four different countries and defeated the Iranian military despite being outnumbered by 3 to 1 in manpower. Was able to overrun Kuwait in 12 hours and could have siezed Northern Saudi Arabia in less than a week if it had chosen to at the time, but in any event was able to threaten most of the planets energy supply with seizure or sabotage.

based upon your line of reasoning we should nuke Japan again.

if it is based on what a country did
in the past and previously had the capability of doing.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:31 PM   #47
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Sorry.
I meant hypocritical bastards.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:31 PM   #48
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Also...

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
I appreciate the barf bag. I have indeed used it a few times, most notably when that one fella accused me of being KKK.
. Someone accused you of that?

I certainly wouldn't blame you for using the barf bag in that case .

Angela
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:32 PM   #49
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Originally posted by Irvine511




good thing they're in the hands of the Syrians now.

face it: while there are arguments to be made for the invasion of Iraq, WMDs is not one of them.

let it go.
If that was the case, then the United Nations would never have required Saddam to verifiably disarm of all WMD at the end of the 1991 Gulf War and face renewed military action if he failed to do so. 12 years of incomplete inspections, airstrikes, and 30 Billion dollars invested annually to contain Saddam in those 12 years all show just how serious and important it was to insure that Saddam was verifiably disarmed of all WMD.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:34 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

and i believe that one day pigs will fly
That's a bogus comparison, and you know it. The trucks were there and they were moving "large amounts of unknown material" to Syria. That is certainly a strong foundation for the belief that those trucks contained WMD.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
what do you THINK?
I think the exact same thing I believe; that those trucks contained WMD.

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Originally posted by Irvine511

and only one (maybe two, the UK) thought the intelligence was worth going to war over.
There were more countries who participated in the war than the US and the UK.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:36 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Also...



. Someone accused you of that?

I certainly wouldn't blame you for using the barf bag in that case .

Angela
Thanks,

Hugs right back to ya!
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:38 PM   #52
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Originally posted by anitram
It's also possible that E.T. will be over for dinner later on in the day.

WMDs have not been found. That is a fact. Your presumption about the trucks is just that - a presumption.
The fact that WMD's have not been found does not change the fact that there are thousands of stocks of WMD that remained unaccounted for by Saddam. He was required to verifiably disarm of the WMD and failed to. To say that the WMD does not exist because it has not been found is also a presumption.

The UN set the conditions for disarmament in 1991 as well as the consequences. Saddam was given one last chance in 2002 and failed to account for the stocks, military action, action which should have been taken years earlier, finally happened.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:39 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Thanks,

Hugs right back to ya!
You're welcome . And thanks.

Angela
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:47 PM   #54
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Thing I always found amusing about the weapons argument-North Korea has them, so why don't we go after them? Whenever I'd ask that question, people would say that it was because they could attack us back. Well, so could've Iraq if they had the weapons, right? But that didn't stop us from going after them. Also, so, if they're liable to attack us back after we've attacked them, then our having weapons of our own (yeah, we tell other countries to get rid of theirs...great, I totally support that idea . But then maybe we should do the same so we don't look like hypocrites, eh?) isn't exactly a deterrent now, is it?

Also, I thought we didn't like pre-emptive strikes. 9/11 was a pre-emptive strike, no? That sure pissed us off. And yet what did we do with Iraq?

So much hypocrisy involved here, and I didn't feel our government's reasoning was all that sincere...my main reasons for not supporting this war. I'm all for trying to stop terrorism, but not like this.

Angela
The difference between Iraq and North Korea is the behavior of the two countries. North Korea has had WMD for decades, but has never used it. The last time North Korea invaded another country was over half a century ago.

In contrast, Saddam had just recently invaded and attacked four different countries in the region. He had used WMD more times than any leader in history. 1.7 million people had been killed during his time in power often as the result of his military invasions. He had threatened most the planets energy supplies with seizure and sabotage. He was in violation of 17 UN resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules of the UN. He was in violation of the Gulf War Ceacefire agreement. He had been required by the UN because of these past actions to completely and verifiably disarm of all WMD or face renewed military action.

Thats a very different situation from North Korea. Without getting into the debate about military options with North Korea, North Korea never presented the threat that Saddam did, not because they lacked certain capabilities, but because their behavior and actions were totally different from Saddam's and their ability to threaten a vital part of the planet was essentially nil.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:52 PM   #55
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


It's no more presumptious than your presumption that Saddam didn't have them moved to Syria.

All we know is that the WMDs are not in Iraq now. You cannot say with any amount of certainty that they were not there when Bush was readying the attack.
The WMD may very well still be in Iraq. It would be rather easy to hide such things that do not take up great volume in such a large area as Iraq. Some inspectors like Blix think the missing WMD is in Iraq buried below ground, but that it was dismantled prior to burial years ago, without telling inspectors. Thats one theory, there are others as well. The only thing that is fact, is that Saddam failed to meet the requirements he agreed to in March 1991 when the Gulf War Ceacefire agreement was signed.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:54 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


Guess which leader has used WMDs more times than any leader in history? Saddam had one of the largest stockpiles of WMD's in history and to date has failed to account for thousands of them according to United Nations Weapons Inspectors. No one knows exactly where they are or what condition or state(intact or dismantled) they are in, but to see they don't exist is false.
Yeah I've heard it all before...No where did I ever claim he never had them, but we went into war based on crap intelligence saying we know he has and claims that we know where they are...remember the whole dog and pony show that Colin Powell put on for the UN.

Shit claims and shit intelligence...
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:55 PM   #57
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Originally posted by deep


80s

Resign yourself to the fact that the Administration lied to you and abused your trust.

It is not that difficult

Colin Powell was able to resign himself.

He could only stomach so much.

How much can you stomach before you will use the barf bag I gave you?
Colin Powell like every Secretary of State before him was only going to serve one administration. Colin Powell has been friends with many of the members of the administration for decades and supports the war in Iraq and did his best to get other nations on board in supporting the war.

Colin Powell NEVER resigned.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:56 PM   #58
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In an effort of consistency how many of you support going into Syria to get that truckload of WMD's?

I'm not saying it wasn't a truckload of WMD's.
I'm asking if you would support going to Syria in an effort to disarm them from the same weapons that we were supposedly going after in Iraq. Is it a matter of quantity or just hostile/docile regimes?
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:57 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


How many dictators over the past 20 years have invaded and attacked four different countries, threatened most of the planets energy supply with sabotage or seizure, used WMD more times than any other leader in history, murdered 1.7 million people, held up a UN inspections process for over a decade, been in violation of 17 different UN resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules, violated a Ceacefire Agreement, been engaged in a multi-Billion dollar smuggling, and failed to account for thousands of stocks of WMD as required by UN resolutions?

Lets see if you can find more than one!
Show me where I made such claims, get off it Sting and just admit there are larger threats in this world and there are other opressors out there, yet we aren't going after them, so that can't be used as a reason to go after him. And if definately doesn't justify lumping it in with the war on terror.
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Old 07-28-2005, 04:01 PM   #60
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Originally posted by deep


I tend to agree,

it may have taken more time,

a tightening of the noose

a broader mandate,

with more U N support

and without the phony evidence and severe lost of U S prestige.

It would not have made any difference if it to a couple of more years

Saddam was contained and pinned down

the case would have been
to bring Saddam to justice
for crimes against humanity.


There would be a lot less blowback

and Ai Queda would not have got the huge assist the bungle has given them
If Saddam was contained and pinned down, how was he able to smuggle 4 Billion dollars worth of goods a across borders that were under a UN embargo and sanctions? Saddam had a 400,000 man military prior to the war in 2003. Allowed more years to exploit the near non-existent sanctions and weapons embargo and the possibilities of seizing and sabotaging energy reserves in Kuwait and North Eastern Saudi Arabia would multiply beyond what any reasonable person working on security issues for the region would dare to allow.

The fact that Saddam failed to verifiably disarm of all WMD is not phony, but a fact.
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