The Al Gore Admin's War on Terror

[deep]

No, it's not. I'm not trying to prove that there were WMDs.

80s

Resign yourself to the fact that the Administration lied to you and abused your trust.

It is not that difficult

Colin Powell was able to resign himself.

He could only stomach so much.

How much can you stomach before you will use the barf bag I gave you?

 

[80sU2isBest]

Thing I always found amusing about the weapons argument-North Korea has them, so why don't we go after them? Whenever I'd ask that question, people would say that it was because they could attack us back. Well, so could've Iraq if they had the weapons, right?

There's a BIG difference. North Korea currently has nuclear weapons that could blow California off the map.

 

[nbcrusader]

You two keep this up and I'll have Sting come in to talk about UN Resolutions.....

 

[80sU2isBest]

80s

Resign yourself to the fact that the Administration lied to you and abused your trust.

I don't know that. In fact, it is my belief that the trucks did contain WMD. I will continue to believe this until evidence that provides reasonable doubt surfaces.

Colin Powell was able to resign himself.

Powell said the administration lied?

How much can you stomach before you will use the barf bag I gave you?

I appreciate the barf bag. I have indeed used it a few times, most notably when that one fella accused me of being KKK.

 

[STING2]

Ok but this and the war on terror are two separate things. There are still many dictators out there that are still doing this same thing and we aren't going after them. Let's not fall in the trap that this administration has made in combining the two.

How many dictators over the past 20 years have invaded and attacked four different countries, threatened most of the planets energy supply with sabotage or seizure, used WMD more times than any other leader in history, murdered 1.7 million people, held up a UN inspections process for over a decade, been in violation of 17 different UN resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules, violated a Ceacefire Agreement, been engaged in a multi-Billion dollar smuggling, and failed to account for thousands of stocks of WMD as required by UN resolutions?

Lets see if you can find more than one!

 

[80sU2isBest]

You two keep this up and I'll have Sting come in to talk about UN Resolutions.....

I think he read your mind...

 

[deep]

I believe we would have gone into Iraq after 9/11.

I believe it would have been conducted quite differently however.

There was enough support from both parties post 9/11 for this to have potentially happened.

I do believe Gore would have built a coalition that consisted of more representation from other Arab nations.

I also believe he would have got France and Germany more on board.

Just my 2 cents.

I tend to agree,

it may have taken more time,

a tightening of the noose

a broader mandate,

with more U N support

and without the phony evidence and severe lost of U S prestige.

It would not have made any difference if it to a couple of more years

Saddam was contained and pinned down

the case would have been
to bring Saddam to justice
for crimes against humanity.


There would be a lot less blowback

and Ai Queda would not have got the huge assist the bungle has given them

 

[80sU2isBest]

I do believe Gore would have built a coalition that consisted of more representation from other Arab nations.

I also believe he would have got France and Germany more on board.

Just my 2 cents.

I appreciate your opinion. But I don't see how any of this would have been possible. France would never have come on board; they were too deep in bed with Saddam (the whole Food For Oil scandal).

 

[anitram]

I don't know that. In fact, it is my belief that the trucks did contain WMD. I will continue to believe this until evidence that provides reasonable doubt surfaces.

The majority of your fellow Americans happen to believe that your president has lied to you. If more than half the country thinks their leader is a liar, that's frankly, very disturbing.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't know that. In fact, it is my belief that the trucks did contain WMD. I will continue to believe this until evidence that provides reasonable doubt surfaces.

and i believe that one day pigs will fly.

what do you THINK?

we saw what happens when you go to war based upon a belief, that if you close your eyes and wish real hard it will come true.

and only one (maybe two, the UK) thought the intelligence was worth going to war over. they might have agreed that, on balance, it certainly looked like Hussein had a WMD program (though it was in his best security interests to make it appear more dangerous than he actually was), but only the US wanted to go to war over a perception based upon dodgey intelligence.

 

[Dreadsox]

I appreciate your opinion. But I don't see how any of this would have been possible. France would never have come on board; they were too deep in bed with Saddam (the whole Food For Oil scandal).

I am not saying it would have been a slam dunk....I do not believe war in Iraq would have happened as quickly.

And I, as you know from hanging in here, was wringing my hands over Food for Oil before we went to war.

 

[deep]

The majority of your fellow Americans happen to believe that your president has lied to you. If more than half the country thinks their leader is a liar, that's frankly, very disturbing.

For the first time, a majority of Americans, 51%, say the Bush administration deliberately misled the public about whether Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction — the reason Bush emphasized in making the case for invading. The administration's credibility on the issue has been steadily eroding since 2003.

 

[STING2]

With his imaginary WMDs and lame army?

Not imaginary WMD's to Iranians, Kurds, who have suffered the results of the use of such WMD. Not imaginary to the United Nations inspections teams who struggled with Saddam to complete the inspections process in the 1990s and were finally unable to because of Saddam. Not imaginary to US troops who in detonating large Iraqi Ammo storage area's in Kuwait in 1991, discovered that sarin gas shells were in several of these storage area's, and certainly not imaginary to some US soldiers who have come across small numbers of sarin gas shells in the current occupation.

Lame Army? Invaded and attacked four different countries and defeated the Iranian military despite being outnumbered by 3 to 1 in manpower. Was able to overrun Kuwait in 12 hours and could have siezed Northern Saudi Arabia in less than a week if it had chosen to at the time, but in any event was able to threaten most of the planets energy supply with seizure or sabotage.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

There's a BIG difference. North Korea currently has nuclear weapons that could blow California off the map.

And the way the administration was talking, Saddam had weapons that could do some pretty nasty stuff to people, too. Remember people kept saying how much of a threat he was to our country, just as North Korea would be a threat to our country? That makes it sound like he had some pretty big weapons himself to me.

Angela

 

[Iskra]

I'm sure that WHATEVER Gore did in this what'if scenario that ALL Republicans and FOC news would stand behind him because he is the Commander-in-Chief and to question him would be un-Patriotic.
Right?
Right?
echo
echo
echo
cricket
cricket...........bastards.

 

[deep]

Lame Army? Invaded and attacked four different countries and defeated the Iranian military despite being outnumbered by 3 to 1 in manpower. Was able to overrun Kuwait in 12 hours and could have siezed Northern Saudi Arabia in less than a week if it had chosen to at the time, but in any event was able to threaten most of the planets energy supply with seizure or sabotage.

based upon your line of reasoning we should nuke Japan again.

if it is based on what a country did
in the past and previously had the capability of doing.

 

[Iskra]

Sorry.
I meant hypocritical bastards.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Also...

I appreciate the barf bag. I have indeed used it a few times, most notably when that one fella accused me of being KKK.

. Someone accused you of that?

I certainly wouldn't blame you for using the barf bag in that case .

Angela

 

[STING2]

good thing they're in the hands of the Syrians now.

face it: while there are arguments to be made for the invasion of Iraq, WMDs is not one of them.

let it go.

If that was the case, then the United Nations would never have required Saddam to verifiably disarm of all WMD at the end of the 1991 Gulf War and face renewed military action if he failed to do so. 12 years of incomplete inspections, airstrikes, and 30 Billion dollars invested annually to contain Saddam in those 12 years all show just how serious and important it was to insure that Saddam was verifiably disarmed of all WMD.

 

[80sU2isBest]

and i believe that one day pigs will fly

That's a bogus comparison, and you know it. The trucks were there and they were moving "large amounts of unknown material" to Syria. That is certainly a strong foundation for the belief that those trucks contained WMD.

what do you THINK?

I think the exact same thing I believe; that those trucks contained WMD.

and only one (maybe two, the UK) thought the intelligence was worth going to war over.

There were more countries who participated in the war than the US and the UK.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Also...



. Someone accused you of that?

I certainly wouldn't blame you for using the barf bag in that case .

Angela

Thanks,

Hugs right back to ya!

 

[STING2]

It's also possible that E.T. will be over for dinner later on in the day.

WMDs have not been found. That is a fact. Your presumption about the trucks is just that - a presumption.

The fact that WMD's have not been found does not change the fact that there are thousands of stocks of WMD that remained unaccounted for by Saddam. He was required to verifiably disarm of the WMD and failed to. To say that the WMD does not exist because it has not been found is also a presumption.

The UN set the conditions for disarmament in 1991 as well as the consequences. Saddam was given one last chance in 2002 and failed to account for the stocks, military action, action which should have been taken years earlier, finally happened.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Thanks,

Hugs right back to ya!

You're welcome . And thanks.

Angela

 

[STING2]

Thing I always found amusing about the weapons argument-North Korea has them, so why don't we go after them? Whenever I'd ask that question, people would say that it was because they could attack us back. Well, so could've Iraq if they had the weapons, right? But that didn't stop us from going after them. Also, so, if they're liable to attack us back after we've attacked them, then our having weapons of our own (yeah, we tell other countries to get rid of theirs...great, I totally support that idea . But then maybe we should do the same so we don't look like hypocrites, eh?) isn't exactly a deterrent now, is it?

Also, I thought we didn't like pre-emptive strikes. 9/11 was a pre-emptive strike, no? That sure pissed us off. And yet what did we do with Iraq?

So much hypocrisy involved here, and I didn't feel our government's reasoning was all that sincere...my main reasons for not supporting this war. I'm all for trying to stop terrorism, but not like this.

Angela

The difference between Iraq and North Korea is the behavior of the two countries. North Korea has had WMD for decades, but has never used it. The last time North Korea invaded another country was over half a century ago.

In contrast, Saddam had just recently invaded and attacked four different countries in the region. He had used WMD more times than any leader in history. 1.7 million people had been killed during his time in power often as the result of his military invasions. He had threatened most the planets energy supplies with seizure and sabotage. He was in violation of 17 UN resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules of the UN. He was in violation of the Gulf War Ceacefire agreement. He had been required by the UN because of these past actions to completely and verifiably disarm of all WMD or face renewed military action.

Thats a very different situation from North Korea. Without getting into the debate about military options with North Korea, North Korea never presented the threat that Saddam did, not because they lacked certain capabilities, but because their behavior and actions were totally different from Saddam's and their ability to threaten a vital part of the planet was essentially nil.

 

[STING2]

It's no more presumptious than your presumption that Saddam didn't have them moved to Syria.

All we know is that the WMDs are not in Iraq now. You cannot say with any amount of certainty that they were not there when Bush was readying the attack.

The WMD may very well still be in Iraq. It would be rather easy to hide such things that do not take up great volume in such a large area as Iraq. Some inspectors like Blix think the missing WMD is in Iraq buried below ground, but that it was dismantled prior to burial years ago, without telling inspectors. Thats one theory, there are others as well. The only thing that is fact, is that Saddam failed to meet the requirements he agreed to in March 1991 when the Gulf War Ceacefire agreement was signed.

 

[BVS]

Guess which leader has used WMDs more times than any leader in history? Saddam had one of the largest stockpiles of WMD's in history and to date has failed to account for thousands of them according to United Nations Weapons Inspectors. No one knows exactly where they are or what condition or state(intact or dismantled) they are in, but to see they don't exist is false.

Yeah I've heard it all before...No where did I ever claim he never had them, but we went into war based on crap intelligence saying we know he has and claims that we know where they are...remember the whole dog and pony show that Colin Powell put on for the UN.

Shit claims and shit intelligence...

 

[STING2]

80s

Resign yourself to the fact that the Administration lied to you and abused your trust.

It is not that difficult

Colin Powell was able to resign himself.

He could only stomach so much.

How much can you stomach before you will use the barf bag I gave you?

Colin Powell like every Secretary of State before him was only going to serve one administration. Colin Powell has been friends with many of the members of the administration for decades and supports the war in Iraq and did his best to get other nations on board in supporting the war.

Colin Powell NEVER resigned.

 

[U2DMfan]

In an effort of consistency how many of you support going into Syria to get that truckload of WMD's?

I'm not saying it wasn't a truckload of WMD's.
I'm asking if you would support going to Syria in an effort to disarm them from the same weapons that we were supposedly going after in Iraq. Is it a matter of quantity or just hostile/docile regimes?

 

[BVS]

How many dictators over the past 20 years have invaded and attacked four different countries, threatened most of the planets energy supply with sabotage or seizure, used WMD more times than any other leader in history, murdered 1.7 million people, held up a UN inspections process for over a decade, been in violation of 17 different UN resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules, violated a Ceacefire Agreement, been engaged in a multi-Billion dollar smuggling, and failed to account for thousands of stocks of WMD as required by UN resolutions?

Lets see if you can find more than one!

Show me where I made such claims, get off it Sting and just admit there are larger threats in this world and there are other opressors out there, yet we aren't going after them, so that can't be used as a reason to go after him. And if definately doesn't justify lumping it in with the war on terror.

 

[STING2]

I tend to agree,

it may have taken more time,

a tightening of the noose

a broader mandate,

with more U N support

and without the phony evidence and severe lost of U S prestige.

It would not have made any difference if it to a couple of more years

Saddam was contained and pinned down

the case would have been
to bring Saddam to justice
for crimes against humanity.


There would be a lot less blowback

and Ai Queda would not have got the huge assist the bungle has given them

If Saddam was contained and pinned down, how was he able to smuggle 4 Billion dollars worth of goods a across borders that were under a UN embargo and sanctions? Saddam had a 400,000 man military prior to the war in 2003. Allowed more years to exploit the near non-existent sanctions and weapons embargo and the possibilities of seizing and sabotaging energy reserves in Kuwait and North Eastern Saudi Arabia would multiply beyond what any reasonable person working on security issues for the region would dare to allow.

The fact that Saddam failed to verifiably disarm of all WMD is not phony, but a fact.