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Old 05-31-2006, 11:21 PM   #1
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The Age Of Aids

Wow. Pretty good documentary.
Thoughts anyone????
I think Bono was alright.
Franklin Graham is suspicious, seemingly kind and a bit of a nut.
And South African President Mbeki should be hung on a meathook for ignoring just about everyone and "causing" the death of perhaps millions. What a bonehead - and this from a former right hand man of Nelson Mandela. You never know who's going to be a nightmare for a certain country. Remember people, this Mbeki character has by his disregard for the truth, had a hand in the death of much more people than Saddam Hussien ( I'm not saying Saddam is innocent - he's a maniac as well). I beleive Bono was right on the button comparing the Aids patients to the lepers of Jesus time. The Aids crisis (especially the first decade) tested the American Evangelical movement and it seems that the majority failed miserably - and by "miserably" I really mean MISERABLY!!!
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:37 PM   #2
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Mbeki, a few years back, became a believer in the minority of scientists who are not convinced that the symptoms that we attribute to "HIV/AIDS" are caused by a virus. The South African government has been funding their work.

I've read some of their arguments, and while I'm not sure what at all to think of them, one line I liked was how much Africa would improve if we put as much effort into improving the overall health care system and sanitation systems in Africa as we did trying to give everyone in Africa AIDS drugs. A lot of Africa is dying from living in downright filth, and malaria, which has long been a treatable disease, has been killing many Africans from lack of drugs--and, to add insult to injury, some pharmaceutical companies have flat out stopped making it for lack of profit potential.

While anti-AIDS advocates obviously have their heart in the right place, it does make me wonder how much of it is concern for Africans and how much of it is concern that Africans might infect Westerners with a terminal illness. Our rather callous attitude to all the other diseases killing them that we ignore everyday certainly gives credence to that argument.

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Old 06-01-2006, 12:40 AM   #3
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The woman from Namibia who spoke at the AIDS conference after they discovered the cocktail was extremely powerful in what she said. "Thanks for providing her with a treatment that costs her 3 years of rent. Thanks for a treatment that costs the same to feed her children until adulthood" WOW!! Total inequity!!

Someone should have injected the HIV virus into Mbeki if he was so confident that it didn't cause AIDS!! I agree he is responsible for the death of so many people by spreading false information about HIV.
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Old 06-01-2006, 02:06 AM   #4
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The poor hygene conditions that enable easier transfer of the virus through heterosexual sex such as leisons and warts are an important factor that should not be overlooked.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k

Someone should have injected the HIV virus into Mbeki if he was so confident that it didn't cause AIDS!! I agree he is responsible for the death of so many people by spreading false information about HIV.
Exactly, how completely disgraceful and shameful. How does he live with that?

Was Bono even on it? I was falling asleep and had to tape the rest.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k
The woman from Namibia who spoke at the AIDS conference after they discovered the cocktail was extremely powerful in what she said. "Thanks for providing her with a treatment that costs her 3 years of rent. Thanks for a treatment that costs the same to feed her children until adulthood" WOW!! Total inequity!!
Actually what she said was that the accommodation cost (hotel stay) was 3 years rent and the air ticket cost would feed her children to adulthood. What could that have been in total - $3k maybe? The treatment at the time was $16,000 per year.

I'm glad I watched the documentary - Frontline always does a great job. I realized how out of touch I really am even though I've been a big supporter of the One Campaign. Reading about what is going on with AIDS in Africa (and elsewhere) doesn't have nearly the same impact as seeing it.

I watched the PBS show just prior as well and it turns out HIV and the bubonic plague are like kissing cousins. One is viral and one is bacterial but they do exactly the same thing to white blood cells.

The good news is that there are direct descendents of people who survived buonic plaque hundreds of years ago who still carry genetic mutations that make them immune to HIV in the same way their ancestors were immune to the plague. This might be the key to finding a vaccine.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:49 AM   #7
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The Nation

Wed May 31, 6:50 PM ET

The Nation -- Five years ago Scott Evertz headed the U.S. delegation to UNGASS where 189 member countries signed the historic Declaration of Commitment on HIV/AIDS. In the glacial bureaucracy of the UN, that declaration was fairly progressive. It committed governments to specific targets for AIDS treatment, embraced comprehensive HIV prevention efforts and spoke openly of condoms, gender equality and vulnerable populations. But today the world is only incrementally closer to universal access to treatment by 2010 -- one of the major goals to emerge from UNGASS in 2001. And the US and its unlikely family values allies in the Middle East are working behind the scenes of UNGASS +5 to roll back even those commitments.

According to Evertz and AIDS activists privy to draft declarations, Islamic countries and the US have diluted references to condoms, replaced "evidence-based" prevention measures with "evidence-informed" measures and struck references to vulnerable populations [men who have sex with men, IV drug users and commercial sex workers].

As the lead U.S. negotiator at the original UNGASS, Evertz is speaking out. "Even in 2001 there were many sticky issues, one of which was that my government didn't want to talk about vulnerable populations, people at risk for HIV. So even then my government found a willing audience and receptive friend in some of the Islamic states that are on our terrorist list. I find that appalling, and we're doing it again," Evertz said at a press conference this morning.

Appointed by Bush as director of the White House Office of National AIDS Policy in 2001, Evertz is no radical; he's not even a Democrat. A clean-cut, former President of the Wisconsin State Log Cabin Republicans, Evertz was recommended by then Secretary of Health and Human Services Tommy Thompson with whom he had worked with on faith-based social services. But apparently, the Bush administration's emphasis on abstinence and fidelity has turned his stomach. When asked if U.S. AIDS policy has been hijacked by the far right, Evertz replied, "I'm not entirely sure, but they are certainly on the plane." "If the tax payers knew how ideology and politics are driving the U.S. response to AIDS, they'd be alarmed," Evertz added.

Now a private citizen, Evertz says he "appreciates not having to be an apologist for some of those [Bush administration] policies."
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:01 AM   #8
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
The Nation

Wed May 31, 6:50 PM ET

"If the tax payers knew how ideology and politics are driving the U.S. response to AIDS, they'd be alarmed," Evertz added.
I'm not so sure about that lol. Those warning bells have been ringing (in many policies, not just AIDS) since Bush took office. "Alarm" suggests a sense of urgency that very few demonstrate.

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Now a private citizen, Evertz says he "appreciates not having to be an apologist for some of those [Bush administration] policies."
It's interesting how so many develop a conscience and voice only once they stop working for the Bushies.
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Old 06-01-2006, 10:05 AM   #9
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i thought it was superb. and i was quite impressed with Bono, actually, less in what he said and more in what a pivotal figure he is coming to be regarded as -- history books will say that it was his ability to communicate combined with his thorough knowledge of Scripture that got the Republicans to get look past their traditional list of people to hate (gay men, drug users, Haitians) and, through religion, start to see the humanity in those afflicted with the disease. Bono has transformed, for them, what was a political issue into much more of a moral calling and did for them what someone like Dread appears to be trying to do for people in his church -- it doesn't matter how you got the disease, it only matters that you have the disease.

the other thing this drove home, especially watching Helms on the floor of the Senate working himself up into a lather over printed materials that (gasp!) mention the existence of gay sex, is just how many people have been killed by homophobia.

it also make me think this curious thought, that i haven't fully examined, but i'm going to toss it out there anyway: in the eyes of many Republicans, dying Africans are more worthy of compassion than dying gay American men.
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Old 06-01-2006, 11:22 AM   #10
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it also make me think this curious thought, that i haven't fully examined, but i'm going to toss it out there anyway: in the eyes of many Republicans, dying Africans are more worthy of compassion than dying gay American men.
Oh absolutely no question that the punitive view of AIDS held against dying Americans (gay, African-American, drug users alike) will continue to hold strong while compassion is reserved for those in developing countries who are viewed as not knowing any better since they are primitive and need to receive the message of Jesus Christ in order to understand abstinence and faithfulness.

Franklin Graham made that message very clear.
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Old 06-01-2006, 11:57 AM   #11
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Originally posted by AliEnvy


Oh absolutely no question that the punitive view of AIDS held against dying Americans (gay, African-American, drug users alike) will continue to hold strong while compassion is reserved for those in developing countries who are viewed as not knowing any better since they are primitive and need to receive the message of Jesus Christ in order to understand abstinence and faithfulness.


very well put.

interesting how victims of AIDS can suddenly appear as "potential converts" in the eyes of some.

ultimately, whatever helps sick people get better and the uninfected to remain healthy is what matters (though the "no condoms" thing defies logic and is so morally indefensible as to be tantamount to murder) and so if the motivation for some Christian groups comes not from compassion but as a chance to evangelize (which i'm sure they'd view as a form of compassion, but that's another discussion) i really don't care all that much. in such a crisis, perhaps the ends do justify the means.

does this mean that gay men are beyond redemption? seems to me like a perfect opportunity for conversion -- look at what your lifestyle has done to you! look at how God has punished your perversion! repent, become a Christian, and you'll be with him when you die soon!
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Old 06-01-2006, 12:08 PM   #12
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Like Bono said, "whatever brings you to the party".

If certain Christians will only participate to the extent that they will preach abstinence and faithfulness, that's perfectly fine.

It's not fine though when public health policy is just as narrowly applied.

Someone from the documentary said it's like wanting to prevent fatal highway accidents but not wanting to talk about cars and roads.
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Old 06-01-2006, 01:40 PM   #13
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the PBS site has more about the show and you can watch it online starting Friday at 5PM ET

Interview with Bono

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...iews/bono.html
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Old 06-01-2006, 02:04 PM   #14
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
The poor hygene conditions that enable easier transfer of the virus through heterosexual sex such as leisons and warts are an important factor that should not be overlooked.


and having a compromised immune system makes warts or herpes outbreaks that much more likely, compounding the problem.

condoms, condoms, condoms.
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