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Old 03-17-2005, 04:48 PM   #46
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"And did you not get the point made earlier that there's no fucking way we could defend ourselves against the government? How are you going to defend against tanks, grenades, bulletproof vests, missles and the like.

That argument is outdated and dead."


My argument might be outdate and dead, but what is your solution?

Should we give all power to the state?


Not one Jewish person walked into the death camps with a firearm in hand

and some fought (armed) against the evil.

I'm not saying my little shotgun can match the power of a modern army, I'm just saying don't take all my water pistols and rubber bands away.
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Old 03-17-2005, 04:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
"And did you not get the point made earlier that there's no fucking way we could defend ourselves against the government? How are you going to defend against tanks, grenades, bulletproof vests, missles and the like.

That argument is outdated and dead."


My argument might be outdate and dead, but what is your solution?

Should we give all power to the state?


Not one Jewish person walked into the death camps with a firearm in hand

and some fought (armed) against the evil.

I'm not saying my little shotgun can match the power of a modern army, I'm just saying don't take all my water pistols and rubber bands away.
If arms equal power than the state's already one. Sorry to tell you.

Or we could be terrorist and steal nuclear arms.
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Old 03-17-2005, 04:56 PM   #48
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"If arms equal power than the state's already one. Sorry to tell you."

Do you really believe the state now has all power over your freedom? Have you given all your liberty and promise of security to the State?

"Or we could be terrorist and steal nuclear arms."

Why would I want to do that? I'm just trying to live my life in my own little acre of the world. I pray for peace.
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Old 03-17-2005, 04:59 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse


Do you really believe the state now has all power over you freedom?
No, there's just no way I can compete when it comes to arms, none of us can so the idea is an illusion.
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Old 03-17-2005, 04:59 PM   #50
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Why would anyone need a high powered rifle with a clip that holds multiple rounds? If you're using it for hunting and you can't hit your target with the three in the chamber than you have no reason to be hunting.

Folding and telescoping stocks sacrifice accuracy for concealability. Why does someone need to conceal a rifle?

Why would any legal gun user need a flash suppresor? It's illegal to hunt at night. The only thing I can think of is if you're hunting at night or attacking someone and you don't want them to know where you are.

I could go on but basically it's all the same. None of these items have any use in hunting or defending oneself.
When dealing with rights, we cannot analyze them by "why would anyone need" - but rather is there "strict scrutiny" of the need for the legislative restriction.

Such laws must not be vague or substantially over or under inclusive and must further an overriding state interest yet drawn narrowly enough avoid any unnecessary intrusion on a Constitutional right.

The definitions used above are overly broad and do not substantiate a public safety interest by themselves.
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Old 03-17-2005, 05:02 PM   #51
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
That argument is outdated and dead.
The proper way to address an "outdated" provision of the Constitution is by Amendment.


Same thing with the 14th Amendment. It states that all who are born in the US are citizens of the US. It was meant to grant citizenship to the slaves.

Now, anyone who gives birth here (whether they arrive legally or illegally) - that child is a US citizen. Not the intent of the provision, but can only be changed by Amendment.
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Old 03-17-2005, 05:20 PM   #52
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


When dealing with rights, we cannot analyze them by "why would anyone need" - but rather is there "strict scrutiny" of the need for the legislative restriction.

Such laws must not be vague or substantially over or under inclusive and must further an overriding state interest yet drawn narrowly enough avoid any unnecessary intrusion on a Constitutional right.

The definitions used above are overly broad and do not substantiate a public safety interest by themselves.
I see nothing too broad about these definitions. They worked(as far as being clearly defined) for 10 years until Bush let the bill expire.
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Old 03-17-2005, 05:22 PM   #53
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


The proper way to address an "outdated" provision of the Constitution is by Amendment.


Same thing with the 14th Amendment. It states that all who are born in the US are citizens of the US. It was meant to grant citizenship to the slaves.

Now, anyone who gives birth here (whether they arrive legally or illegally) - that child is a US citizen. Not the intent of the provision, but can only be changed by Amendment.
Two completely different issues that need to be dealt with differently.
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Old 03-17-2005, 06:42 PM   #54
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Constitutional rights should be dealt with in a consistent manner. That is an essential part of liberty.
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Old 03-17-2005, 07:13 PM   #55
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Constitutional rights should be dealt with in a consistent manner. That is an essential part of liberty.
I agree but I'm saying the change in the two laws is entirely different. 14th ammendment is providing something entirely different than it's original intent, but we can argue if that change is good or bad. 2nd ammendment doesn't hold to it's original intent, but we're now changing the intent to fit our needs.
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Old 03-29-2005, 03:57 PM   #56
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5-Year-Old Finds Parents' Bodies After Shooting
Man Found Dead After Mother Killed, Father Injured


A 5-year-old found the bullet-riddled bodies of her dead mother and seriously injured father early Monday morning in the aftermath of an apparent feud, according to WKMG-TV in Orlando.

Authorities said David Johnson of New Smyrna Beach went to the home of Julie Hernlen, 31, and Aeneas Hernlen, 29, located on Ellison Avenue and Jungle Road at about 3 a.m. Monday and shot the couple.

The woman died in the assault and her husband remained in serious condition Monday night.

The victims' 5-year-old daughter was inside the house at the time of the shooting and was awakened by the sound of gunfire,WKMG-TV reported. She found her parents shot and called 911.

"There is blood coming out of my dad's mouth and he fell off the bed," the little girl said in a 911 called aired on WKMG-TV Monday night.

The 911 dispatcher asked the girl where her mother was.

"I don't know, I think they are dead," the girl replied.
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:36 PM   #57
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This is a tragic event.

What is your point posting it on this thread deep?

Not having a gun would have stopped this madman from killing?
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Old 03-31-2005, 06:50 AM   #58
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Yea, the Constitution clearly led to this situation.....
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