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Old 04-21-2005, 10:43 AM   #46
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We abolished execution on juvenile offenders recently, it was ruled unconstitutional. About a month ago, we had a thread on it.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:46 AM   #47
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Originally posted by Flying FuManchu


I don't believe in the extremist view of your example and I doubt many people on the pro-capital punishment side do either. Obviously the problem with your illustration is that punishment may seem too extreme for that specific crime. But is capital punishment too extreme for people alah the DC sniper or a Zarquawi type? Your example, doesn't prove it to be an extreme measure.
Well at least you're honest and don't believe in consistency along your lines of "retribution".
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:49 AM   #48
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I don't believe in the eye for an eye mentality, lenient sentences, or overcrowding prisons. Alternatives to the death penalty need to be discussed, such as more prisons if the death penalty should be abolished.
Well the whole system needs to redefined. We're crowding up our prisons with drug users who need to be in rehab programs.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:51 AM   #49
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Oh, I remember that now.

Sorry guys, it was on the AI Web site still. Thanks for bringing that up Macfistowannabe.

I'll just be over here if you need me.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:26 PM   #50
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Originally posted by Do Miss America
Well the whole system needs to redefined. We're crowding up our prisons with drug users who need to be in rehab programs.
Drug users and drug dealers need both prison and rehab.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:50 PM   #51
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Drug users and drug dealers need both prison and rehab.
I'm not sure I agree with users needing jail time. But we have a problem when we have people spending life in prison for posession especially when it's first time offences, and violent crimes getting lesser sentences.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:54 PM   #52
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Originally posted by Do Miss America
I'm not sure I agree with users needing jail time. But we have a problem when we have people spending life in prison for posession especially when it's first time offences, and violent crimes getting lesser sentences.
Can you show me where first time drug offenders get life sentences? It sounds a little twisted for the first time offense. I'd appreciate a link if you can pull me one.
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Old 04-21-2005, 01:46 PM   #53
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Can you show me where first time drug offenders get life sentences? It sounds a little twisted for the first time offense. I'd appreciate a link if you can pull me one.
There was a thread in here not too long ago, but I'm not able to search:

http://www.statenews.com/editionssum...7/op_col2.html
(basically a life sentence)

http://www.battlecryofinnocence.com/...s/georgeM.html

http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?...icp=1&.intl=us
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Old 04-21-2005, 05:01 PM   #54
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Thanks for the links. You have a point that they are spending too much time for a first offence for a non-violent crime. A few years maybe, and some rehab, but not a life sentence. Drug use is illegal, drunk driving is a bad enough problem in this country. The thought of anyone driving under the influence of drugs boggles my mind, therefore I'd rather have them illegal in order to prevent more incidents from happening.

The system does need changes, I agree with that much.
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Old 04-21-2005, 05:48 PM   #55
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
...A good question. If he has in fact taken the life of another person, he is a threat to society, and can no longer be trusted under the eyes of the law. He justly deserves to be punished for what he has done one way or the other. Law enforcement has that duty in order to protect innocent people.
...
Thank you coemgen and macfisto, for your answers. Very much appreciated

Mac, this last sentence is probably the gist of my issue. The religious who are for the death penalty say 'after all, we try and seperate church and state', and whether you want this or not is another issue. But, with the death penalty, isn't the law going one step beyond keep church and state together and becoming the church? In commonspeak, it is pretty much legalising God's role isn't it? We are taking something which is not ours to play with, or to take on or assume, and arrogantly putting man's desires above God's?? Where are the Christian principles of forgiveness and loving your fellow sinner in executing a man (or woman)? Don't get me wrong, I don't have any sympathy for proven felons or murderers etc, and frankly have limited belief in prisoner reform, but that is what jail is for. Little might come of 50 years spent behind bars. Many might not ever apologise or truly feel remorse, but while they are alive, anyone can try. A dead man cannot be forgiven.
Anyway, thanks again.
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Old 04-21-2005, 05:56 PM   #56
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This is one of the reasons I am against the death penalty.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:34 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Thank you coemgen and macfisto, for your answers. Very much appreciated


Quote:
Mac, this last sentence is probably the gist of my issue. The religious who are for the death penalty say 'after all, we try and seperate church and state', and whether you want this or not is another issue.
It is open to interpretation. One side can say let them live, one can say death is too good for them, while another can say they have taken a life, and the punishment should fit the crime. In the end, it's not about "forgive and forget", and no crime should go unpunished. Outside of the box, one has to believe in justice, but it all comes down to how it is served.

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But, with the death penalty, isn't the law going one step beyond keep church and state together and becoming the church? In commonspeak, it is pretty much legalising God's role isn't it? We are taking something which is not ours to play with, or to take on or assume, and arrogantly putting man's desires above God's?? Where are the Christian principles of forgiveness and loving your fellow sinner in executing a man (or woman)?[/
These are some good questions. I don't completely see it that way, I don't see it that much as a religious issue. Faith should guide your moral compass if you choose to believe in one. Crazed orthodoxy types might suggest the golden rule "the wages of sin is death", which really has more to do with a spiritual belief - relating more to Old Testament than modern Christianity. I'll try not to dig too deep about it. Other types might suggest "love the sinner, hate the sin." Just because we feel the person should be punished doesn't mean we don't love them or want what is best for them. If your child acts up, you would take priveliges away, but that doesn't imply that you don't love them. I guess it could be argued that we have a divine moral obligation to bring justice. I'm not convinced that the death penalty is the best answer, and the story is living proof of that.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I don't have any sympathy for proven felons or murderers etc, and frankly have limited belief in prisoner reform, but that is what jail is for. Little might come of 50 years spent behind bars. Many might not ever apologise or truly feel remorse, but while they are alive, anyone can try. A dead man cannot be forgiven.
It is interesting how some find their true passive selves when living behind bars. It's scary though what kind of violence could break out inside a prison. There have been stories of inmates killing each other, which isn't exactly news, but it makes you wonder. I agree with a lot of your points here.
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Old 04-22-2005, 08:59 AM   #58
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I differ from most of my fellow Republicans and Conservatives on this issue.

Innocent people DO get executed. In my mind, just the chance that an innocent person could be executed is enough to abolish teh death penalty altogether. I'd much rather have my taxes pay to keep a guilty man in prison for his entire life than for one single innocent person to be executed.
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:10 AM   #59
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
I differ from most of my fellow Republicans and Conservatives on this issue.

Innocent people DO get executed. In my mind, just the chance that an innocent person could be executed is enough to abolish teh death penalty altogether. I'd much rather have my taxes pay to keep a guilty man in prison for his entire life than for one single innocent person to be executed.

hey ... we agree!

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Old 04-22-2005, 09:14 AM   #60
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It's amazing, isn't it?
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