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Old 04-20-2005, 07:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Anyone can create doubt after the fact. One guy believes that a defendant may have been innocent, any you want to change the criminal justice system?
It's not just one person though. How many cases have there been where the person found guilty and in jail for years, even decades, and sometimes on death row, has later been proven to be not guilty? Many. Too damned many to continue to have a death penalty.
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Old 04-20-2005, 08:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Anyone can create doubt after the fact. One guy believes that a defendant may have been innocent, any you want to change the criminal justice system?
It wouldn't be the first time someone who is innocent has been murdered in an inhuman quest for revenge by the State, it won't be the last.

The Death Penalty is shameful.
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Old 04-20-2005, 08:31 PM   #18
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Our insatiable appetite for revenge will be our undoing someday.

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Old 04-20-2005, 09:10 PM   #19
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Our insatiable appetite for revenge will be our undoing someday.

Melon
I'm glad someone said this. It's bloodlust, it's almost as some don't care as long as someone died for the sins of said crime. But why oh why is it always the "religious" ones who speak up so loudly for it? The ones that preach forgiveness and speak about how salvation can even come to the worse humans minutes before they die as long they accept Jesus, these are the ones who want them dead and maybe never give them that chance. It baffles me.

I've almost got to the point of thinking religion is the ultimate enemy of God.
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Old 04-20-2005, 09:24 PM   #20
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I'm all about retribution... Again, if people want to adjust a law, that is fine by me. Don't throw out baby with the bathwater.
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Old 04-20-2005, 09:33 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Flying FuManchu
I'll about retribution...
Right, eye for an eye till we're all blind.

Honestly we should go back to if you steal you lose your hand, you lie you lose your tongue.
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Old 04-20-2005, 09:40 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Do Miss America
Honestly we should go back to if you steal you lose your hand, you lie you lose your tongue.
Haha...Bush would be nothing more than a blind/deaf/mute with no arms and legs.

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Old 04-20-2005, 09:40 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Do Miss America
No, but you can give them the last part of their life back.
Exactly. This is why I support doing away with the death penalty and just going on life imprisonment sentences for people accused of serious crimes like murder or rape or something like that. That way, those who get that sentence but are later found to be innocent can have their jail sentence cleared away and they can therefore go free, and those who are definitely guilty can remain in jail for the rest of their lives.

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Old 04-20-2005, 10:05 PM   #24
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I do not believe my tax dollars should go towards helping house, feed, and maintain some sort of lifestyle for a prisoner who has committed an extremely horrible crime (e.g. BTK killer). Every heinous crime is not like the Scott Peterson case (verdict based on circumstantial evidence) where IMO the death penalty is too extreme. But there are cases where, without a shadow of a doubt, a person is guilty of having commited multiple murders, etc. Remember the D.C. sniper?

If people want to reform the system so as to make it less likely an innocent man is executed- I'm fine with that. But to abolish capital punishment. I can't agree with it.

It may seem harsh, but when someone goes on and murders several people for the joy of it or out of pure selfishness (alah the DC sniper), then he/ she deserves the "ultimate" punishment. If one is an atheist (or agnostic), I would think that it would piss them off more that a convicted uber-criminal gets to continue to live out the rest of their life rather than experience nothingness now.
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America

Right, eye for an eye till we're all blind.

Honestly we should go back to if you steal you lose your hand, you lie you lose your tongue.
I don't believe in the extremist view of your example and I doubt many people on the pro-capital punishment side do either. Obviously the problem with your illustration is that punishment may seem too extreme for that specific crime. But is capital punishment too extreme for people alah the DC sniper or a Zarquawi type? Your example, doesn't prove it to be an extreme measure.
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:23 PM   #26
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I think the point everyone is making about the death penalty is that it cannot be made "so as to make it less likely an innocent man is executed". Besides, it should be " so an innocent man is NEVER executed". All of these false convictions were ratified by DAs, prosecutors, juries, judges, etc. Many, many people are involved in the process of convicting a person of murder yet sometimes they are wrong.

Cases are already being qualified for certain punishments like 1st degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter and prosecutors announce they are seeking the death penalty and jurors are asked in selection their views on this topic to find out if they could send a person to their death. Even if you determine whether a certain crime qualifies for capital punishment, the same problems which lead to false convictions still exist. Also, the determination of "without a shadow of a doubt" is subjective. I agree there are some cases in which the evidence appears to be airtight but who and what is the bar by which we judge whether or not such evidence is sufficient for that standard. Isn't that what "beyond reasonable doubt" is meant to do in the legal system? Should they add a new standard which could weaken the concept of reasonable doubt and lead to a whole new defense argument ?
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:30 PM   #27
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I don't believe in the eye for an eye mentality, lenient sentences, or overcrowding prisons. Alternatives to the death penalty need to be discussed, such as more prisons if the death penalty should be abolished.
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k
. Also, the determination of "without a shadow of a doubt" is subjective. I agree there are some cases in which the evidence appears to be airtight but who and what is the bar by which we judge whether or not such evidence is sufficient for that standard. Isn't that what "beyond reasonable doubt" is meant to do in the legal system? Should they add a new standard which could weaken the concept of reasonable doubt and lead to a whole new defense argument ?
I don't see how "without a shadow of a doubt" is subjective? Should I have said there is "no doubt" instead?

We can only agree to disagree. From what you're saying, you believe no criminal should be executed even if all evidence points to that person (witnesses, dna, fingerprints, confession - hell, lets add video taped evidence). You're saying there still might be a reason that criminal should be let off from being given the death penalty?

I can't agree with that. It just sounds ridiculous to me since the point of this thread was to say that we need to save innocent men from being executed but you're saying even though everything is AIRTIGHT and without a shadow of a doubt, that there is still a possibility he's innocent. Then why have a trial?

I understand reforming the legal system would be difficult, but isn't it worth it to save an innocent people's life while dealing justly with those who have chosen to commit heinous acts?
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:39 PM   #29
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Isn't life a gift from God?
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:42 PM   #30
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If you believe in God. Yes it would be. But those type of arguments aren't supposed to work b/c, you know, separation of church and state.
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