terrorist plotted to blow up Amsterdam's red light district - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-11-2004, 04:48 PM   #1
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terrorist plotted to blow up Amsterdam's red light district

Pizza courier 'targeted' Amsterdam sex zone
10 December 2004

AMSTERDAM — Justice authorities arrested*a*Moroccan man last month after receiving a tip-off that Islamic extremists were allegedly planning an attack on the Red Light District in*Amsterdam, it was reported on Friday.

The pizza-delivery courier*allegedly conducted*reconnaissance of the capital's prostitution zone while riding through the area during work hours on his scooter. He was arrested on 5 November. Newspaper De Telegraaf described him as a*"radical Moroccan pizza courier".

The National Detectives Unit was alerted to the supposed*attack plan by three anonymous emails, the first of which was received on 14 September. Emails dated 27 September and 11 October gave further details of the suspects and addresses.

The emails warned that "terrorists in Amsterdam East" were plotting an attack on the Wallen area in Amsterdam,*De Telegraaf reported.*Muslim extremists, the paper said, were allegedly furious at*the lack of morals in the prostitution zone.

Justice authorities took the tips very seriously and arrested the pizza deliverer at the Nasr mosque in the Celebesstraat in Amsterdam East. The man has been identified as a 20-year-old Amsterdam resident of Moroccan descent, Bilal L., alias Abu Qataadah.

L. was allegedly*in contact with Syrian Redouan al-Issa, the fugitive leader of the terror network Hofstadgroep (Main City Group). The Syrian was an illegal immigrant in the Netherlands and gave Koran lessons in the home of Mohammed B., the suspected murderer of filmmaker Theo van Gogh. B. is also a member of the Main City Group.

The emails claimed the Syrian was involved in the plans to attack the Red Light District, while another target was the Dutch Parliament in The Hague.* L. is alleged to have bought equipment needed to carry out the attack.

It is possible that L. was in contact with Jason W., one of the two suspects arrested in a stand-off with police in The Hague on 10 November. The detective unit involved in the investigation claims the group around L. regularly met at the Aboe Bakr mosque in Almere.

L. is also reportedly being held for threatening right-wing independent MP Geert Wilders. The MP's life has been repeatedly threatened because of his*trenchant critisism of Islam.

The Main City Group — which mainly consists of Muslims of North African descent — has been kept under surveillance by the Dutch intelligence service AIVD since the summer of 2002.

Samir A. — who is being held on suspicion he was planning an attack against Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, the Dutch Parliament and the Defence Ministry — is also a member of the group. He is believed to be in contact with the suspected killer of Van Gogh.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...erdam+sex+zone
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Old 12-11-2004, 04:54 PM   #2
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the question this raises, is, the following: the Dutch are famously tolerant, being a haven for immigrants and refugees from all over the world for centuries. it is also this spirit of tolerance that has created one of the most liberal, open societies in the world where prostitution is legal and regulated, so are soft drugs, and it seems to work very well for the Dutch. it is also this social expectation of tolerance that allows extreme interpretations of Islam to be practiced in the Netherlands. however, such interpretations preach the destruction of precisely those elements in Dutch society -- tolerance. the Dutch are now tolerating intolerance towards their own tolerance. where does it end? what do we make of this? are we going to see a backlash? are we going to see an end to the tolerance of intolerance?

discuss.
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Old 12-11-2004, 05:18 PM   #3
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when i was there about a year ago i spoke with several people around my age. they are tolerant of anything that does not infringe on anyone else's rights....of course these few 20-year olds don't speak for their entire country, but that seems like a plausible attitude of the dutch
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Old 12-11-2004, 05:21 PM   #4
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Good grief. You're right, the Dutch have been known for their extraordinary tolerance for a long time. They gave the Jews shelter before many other people were willing to. It's a shame this is being tested now as a result of this madness on the part of shameless killers. I just think this is really sad.
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Old 12-11-2004, 08:44 PM   #5
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Am I allowed to criticize loose immigration/integration policies without being labelled a racist? I think that there are only going to be victims from both the initial violence and ultimately from the reprisals, if countries sought balance then the risk of both would go down and all people would be a lot safer.
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Old 12-12-2004, 06:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Am I allowed to criticize loose immigration/integration policies without being labelled a racist? I think that there are only going to be victims from both the initial violence and ultimately from the reprisals, if countries sought balance then the risk of both would go down and all people would be a lot safer.
I think so, yes. Maybe there is such a thing as immigration policies that are too loose. It's painful to think about it, but when you've got people that are going to other countries just to blow some stuff up it's got to be investigated and hopefully stopped by preventing Nut X from getting into a country.
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Old 12-12-2004, 08:17 AM   #7
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We (the Dutch that is) ourselves brought loads and loads of Marrocan/Turkish/Spanish people into our country in the sixties when we didn't have enough people to do all the work because of the booming economy. Now, the third generation is growing up in our country and I've got the feeling that they don't really know where they belong. A lot of the Dutch don't see them as Dutch people and in their own country they're seen as not part of the culture. I think it's one of the reasons they're attracted to extremistic views.

It's very sad what's happening in our country right now and I don't really like the changes this country is going through. Yes, we were very tolerant and maybe we were too tolerant. That's probably part of the problem. But you can't change the past. The immigration laws have become a lot stricter through the past years, but I think the problems come from the people that have been here for years and years. And I don't see a solution to it if I'm honest.

And the murder of Theo van Gogh just blew up the whole tolerance-thing towards mainly muslims if you ask me.

O, and by the way: if they had blown up the red light district, I would've been dead. No, I don't work there I'm living around the corner from the busiest street in the red light district. Glad they didn't blow it up!
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Old 12-12-2004, 08:21 AM   #8
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Yes, it is true that the Dutch have been labeled tolerant for quite some time now. Much of this has to do with geography and history. The Netherlands is just a small country (~400 km North to South and ~200 km East to West, or to put it in another perspective, I've read somewhere that in the USA, only the state of Rhode Island is smaller than the Netherlands). So we welcomed many people and ideas to enable prosperity and growth.
Nowadays, with 16 million people, tolerance is also necessary to be able to live together. Everything is small in the Netherlands, including living space (because we are one of the most crowded countries in the world, with 360+ people living per square kilometer). You need to tolerate different ideas and styles of living, because you can barely escape from it here.
So, for a while, there was a blind eye to tolerating intolerance.

Because, no A_Wanderer, you won't be labeled a racist immediately. But some sides do like to name it like that quite easily here. Part of it still has to do with WWII, I think. While the Netherlands did give shelter to Jews long before many other countries did, many Jews were also deported from the Netherlands during WWII. Part of it has to do with geography (in a flat country with no mountains or large forests it's very difficult to hide people for a long time), part with a well-oiled bureacratic system and maybe also part with an unwillingness to take the risk and try to hide Jews from the Germans (in whatever could have been possible in your house). So they may be some guilt over past behaviour and thus an extra drive to welcome everyone from all over the world.

Immigration was too loose for a while. Too little attention was given to integrating the immigrants in the Dutch society. Now, after the rise and the assasination of politician Pim Fortuyn (and the 11 September terrorist attack) and the murder of Theo van Gogh is there a lot more pressure to stricten immigration laws. Still, the racist label is used too loosely (IMO).

What will happen to the Netherlands? Will it become a fortress for immigrants? How will the different cultures from other peoples be respected? I think that, eventually, the new laws/attitude in the Netherlands will be a bit too harsh. Not that I have expert knowledge on these issues, but I see it as a swing move to find a balance. First, laws were too loose, next they'll probably be too harsh, after which they're loosened a bit, etc. until a good balance is found. On these levels I believe politics never have it right the first time. It will turn out OK in the end, but until then there will be pressures while finding balance.

C ya!

Marty
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Old 12-12-2004, 12:01 PM   #9
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Well, you also have to take into account WHY they would've attacked the red light district -- try the fact that it is against their religion to be hanging with prostitutes etc. I wouldn't worry so much about the rest of Amsterdam or the Netherlands. Every country has a spot that would be considered a place to attack.
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Old 12-12-2004, 03:42 PM   #10
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This is not a morality crusade, to these groups it is about bringing the weak west to it's knees against the obvious superiority of Islam (or more specifically their despotic political system built around their religion) - it would be supremely ignorant to assume and project upon such actions.
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Old 12-12-2004, 03:46 PM   #11
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hey A
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Old 12-12-2004, 03:53 PM   #12
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Hey

I wasn't here over the weekend, out running a 300 player lan - uhhh so much cabling to check.
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Old 12-12-2004, 04:33 PM   #13
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Yeah, it's obvious why they targeted the red light district. It's part of their jihadist political campaign.
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Old 12-12-2004, 04:57 PM   #14
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I can't believe nobody's made a blowjob joke yet.
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Old 12-12-2004, 05:14 PM   #15
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thats hilarious!
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