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Old 09-30-2006, 12:37 PM   #31
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I want to see Islam under siege from the outside and within; I want to see the marketplace of ideas blow a big damn whole in the faith and lead to liberalisation, agnosticism and atheism.
Nothing like the militancy of the true believer, eh.

Well, as long as your not suggesting violence against religious people, I guess I have no quarrel. (Not all of us religious people are eager to silence all critcism).
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Old 09-30-2006, 12:51 PM   #32
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It should also be mentioned that Renaisance Art fit the glove on 16th/17th century Italian culture - nudity was not sexualized. That's why it was so prevalent and accepted throughout that timeframe.
That's mostly a revisionist interpretation of history, because nude Renaissance art was quite controversial in its time. However, since these were the days of despotism and imperialism, the autocratic patrons of these artworks could flat out ignore those who called it obscene.

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The Last Judgment was painted by Michelangelo from 1535-1541, after the 1527 Sack of Rome by Protestant forces from the Holy Roman Empire, which effectively ended the Roman Renaissance, and just before the Council of Trent, a time of great uncertainty as to the future of the church. The work is massive and spans the entire wall behind the altar of the Sistine Chapel. The Last Judgment is a depiction of the second coming of Christ and the apocalypse. The souls of humanity rise and descend to their fates as judged by Christ and his saintly entourage. The wall on which The Last Judgment is painted cants out slightly over the viewer as it rises, and is meant to be somewhat fearful and to instill piety and respect for God's power. In contrast to the other frescoes in the Chapel, the figures are heavily muscled and appear somewhat tortured–even the Virgin Mary at the center cowers beneath him.

The Last Judgment was an object of a heavy dispute between Cardinal Carafa and Michelangelo: the artist was accused of immorality and intolerable obscenity, having depicted naked figures, with genitals in evidence, so a censorship campaign (known as the "Fig-Leaf Campaign") was organized by Carafa and Monsignor Sernini (Mantua's ambassador) to remove the frescoes. When the Pope's own Master of Ceremonies, Biagio da Cesena, said "it was mostly disgraceful that in so sacred a place there should have been depicted all those nude figures, exposing themselves so shamefully, and that it was no work for a papal chapel but rather for the public baths and taverns," Michelangelo worked da Cesena's semblance into the scene as Minos, judge of the underworld. It is said that when he complained to the Pope, the pontiff responded that his jurisdiction did not extend to hell, so the portrait would have to remain.

The genitalia in the fresco were later covered by the artist Daniele da Volterra, whom history remembers by the derogatory nickname "Il Braghettone" ("the breeches-painter").
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Old 09-30-2006, 03:41 PM   #33
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For the record, for every NEA dollar spent, nine dollars comes from the private sector. My studio is entirely privately funded. We're not getting a dime from the government. And, oh, yes, my sister in Brooklyn was really pissed off when Giuliani tried to get the plug pulled on that exhibit in the Brooklyn Museum. I didn't know anything about the controversy.
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Old 09-30-2006, 04:14 PM   #34
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Those who went out and bombed abortion clinics are hypocrites for calling themselves "pro-life", where as those who rioted over a Danish cartoon are also hypocrites for calling themselves followers of a "religion of peace." You'll always find extremes, but nobody beheaded anyone as a result of Piss Christ. A few acts of violence in the name of Judeo-Christianity that are throughly condemed throughout the Judeo-Christian community is not the same as many acts of Islamic violence partially condemned throughout the Islamic community.
The violence isn't different and neither is the mentality; hypocricy is believers calling other believers beliefs illogical.
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Old 09-30-2006, 05:08 PM   #35
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He seems to be a murderous thug with delusions of grandeur that managed to conquer Arabia and codify the cultural norms of the era, he is not deserving of emulation and deserves critical analysis and depiction.
Well, alot of people in Mecca didn't like what Mohammed was saying, so he left, and then put the place under siege. Arabs didn't do much siege warfare, as I recall, although military history is my Achilles' heel, so don't quote me on the siege thing. Of course Islam, like any other religion, deserves criticism and analysis.
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:47 AM   #36
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That's mostly a revisionist interpretation of history, because nude Renaissance art was quite controversial in its time. However, since these were the days of despotism and imperialism, the autocratic patrons of these artworks could flat out ignore those who called it obscene.
Many of us accept that the Renaissance period was great in the fact that they could look at nudity without stimulating sexual arousal. Although I have to wonder how they could possibly get aroused at anything in order to multiply or have any sexual urges whatsoever.

Many of us also accept that the Vatican does not have a moral monopoly. They are in our lifetime, in my opinion however, more right than wrong.
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:52 AM   #37
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The violence isn't different and neither is the mentality; hypocricy is believers calling other believers beliefs illogical.
It depends on how you lump world religions together - or apart.

I like to separate moderate Islam from radical Islam for example, they should not be thought of as the same creed.

Surely, you've found at least one atheist to hold illogical beliefs?
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:31 PM   #38
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Bobblehead Muhammed?

New York Daily News

BY TINA MOORE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER


A ceramic bobblehead doll of the Prophet Muhammed - created to resemble the infamous caricature published by a Danish newspaper - is being hawked online for $22.99 a pop by an ex-Marine.

The unapologetic creator, Timothy Ames, 28, said the bobblehead is similar to "dashboard Jesus" figurines that can be stuck with adhesive to flat surfaces. "I thought, 'If they flipped out over some cartoons what will they do with a dashboard Muhammed?'" Ames said from his home in Hawaii.
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