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Old 02-11-2002, 03:14 AM   #16
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are these statistics based on the entire world population? also, give us some sort of an idea what these numbers were in previous years, put them in context please
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Old 02-11-2002, 03:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways:
It's not really your place to judge.
I, for one, defend the right to judge.

Let's say, for an instance, that the right-to-life people are right (and I believe they are), that an unborn child is a human being and killing that child is murdering a defenseless innocent.

If that's true, the number of legal abortions in the United States has dwarfed other crimes against humanity of recent history. If I have my numbers right, the Nazi Holocaust cost the lives of six million people. Stalin's purges, twenty million. Abortions since Roe v. Wade, forty million.

It is truly a hotly contested question of whether a fetus is a human life, but the consequences of the answer are very serious and should be mentioned.
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Old 02-11-2002, 04:31 AM   #18
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Im curious as to how someone can maintain the right to judge a statistic like this, yet not judge the individual. There are 1,330,000 'stories' in that statistic, all of them individual. I reckon I'd go so far as to say there are 1,330,000 different reasons for an abortion in that statistic. 80's did your source happen to mention those 1,330,000 reasons?
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Old 02-11-2002, 06:12 AM   #19
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Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:

If that's true, the number of legal abortions in the United States has dwarfed other crimes against humanity of recent history. If I have my numbers right, the Nazi Holocaust cost the lives of six million people. Stalin's purges, twenty million. Abortions since Roe v. Wade, forty million.

Do you actually compare the Nazis and Stalins crimes, with abortions? Is an abortion a crime against humanity? What happened to a womans right to chose? Ofcourse there are condoms, pills etc. but they┤re not 100% sure. What would you tell them? "Sorry lady, sex is only for reproduction"?

And I agree not using protection is just stupid. But seriously how many of you out there actually use abortion as a regular prevention for not having a baby. I now it happens, but that number can┤t be that big, can it?

As you can tell my opinion is that during the first months a fetus is just a fetus.

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Old 02-11-2002, 08:54 AM   #20
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80's what does that mean? I believe it means there's less than half of the next generation living! That's an awfully bad sign for the next generation! And yes, that is insane-who's going to take care of Them in their old age? think about it..they are not there! I don't like to judge either-but those are the facts all because of Roe vrs. Wade! Something to think about..isn't it?
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Old 02-11-2002, 09:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
Im curious as to how someone can maintain the right to judge a statistic like this, yet not judge the individual. There are 1,330,000 'stories' in that statistic, all of them individual. I reckon I'd go so far as to say there are 1,330,000 different reasons for an abortion in that statistic. 80's did your source happen to mention those 1,330,000 reasons?
Angela, for me and many others, abortion is murder. When I see murder stats, I don't say "Well, let's not judge, because we don't know the reasons". I'll tell you what I am judging. I am judging the fact that something is dead wrong with our society when that many people either think it is their only choice or don't care at all. That's what I'm judging. And I also think someone MUCH higher than me is judging the situation, if you know what I mean.

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Old 02-11-2002, 11:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
Im curious as to how someone can maintain the right to judge a statistic like this, yet not judge the individual. There are 1,330,000 'stories' in that statistic, all of them individual. I reckon I'd go so far as to say there are 1,330,000 different reasons for an abortion in that statistic. 80's did your source happen to mention those 1,330,000 reasons?
Angela, for me and many others, abortion is murder. When I see murder stats, I don't say "Well, let's not judge, because we don't know the reasons". I'll tell you what I am judging. I am judging the fact that something is dead wrong with our society when that many people either think it is their only choice or don't care at all. That's what I'm judging. And I also think someone MUCH higher than me is judging the situation, if you know what I mean.

This thread will go to histora - I actualy agree both with Bubba and 80's - until now I never agreed with any one of them...

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Old 02-11-2002, 12:15 PM   #23
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Wow, I did not realize that the numbers were so high - so I checked it out for myself. This is from a Pro-life source but read what it says:

...the following statistics are based on research published by the Alan Guttmacher Institute, special research affiliate of Planned Parenthood Federation of America--the nation's largest provider and promoter of abortion. Estimates for 1997 and 1998 are based on trends from previous years.

In the past, AGI has estimated a possible 3-6% rate of underreporting. The following uses the lower figure.


It reported 1996 abortions at 1,365,730 in America - and estimated the same for 1997 and 1998.
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Old 02-11-2002, 12:48 PM   #24
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By the way, my stats are from the National Center for Health Statistics.
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Old 02-11-2002, 01:01 PM   #25
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I think AngelaHarlem made a great point


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Old 02-11-2002, 01:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
However, it's US stats only.
since this wasn't posted until *after* i made my post...*shrugs*
the numbers may not be the same, but i still hold to my beliefs.

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Old 02-11-2002, 01:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
In 1997 (latest stats available), about 6,192,000 pregnancies ended. Of that number, do you know how many ended in abortion?
1,330,000.
That's over 1/6!
That's friggin' insane. What the hell is happening?
First a question, was it really 6 000 000 ENDED pregnancies? The figure seems to be the total number of pregnancies, delivered baby or not. I compared it to the Swedish statistics and the numbers can't be that different. If this in fact IS the number of ENDED pregnancies, I would just out of curiosity like to have the number of total pregnancies that should be like an unreal number of them.

To my view on this. I don't like to interfer normally but to say anything before you actually are in the situation with the unwanted child INSIDE you and know that you will have it there for another nine month and then not want it or not be able to take care of it but still have feelings for it, noone has the right to say anything!

I can indeed understand and respect how strongly some of you feel in this issue but everything is not black or white. I think the ones here with the strongest belief is men, right? You can never end up in the situation. You will now probably say that a man can feel just as stronge and are as pregnant as the woman but I'm sorry, you can never be. It's easy to say when you actually just can take your stuff and run away and never ever see the girl or the baby again. A girl can NEVER do that. I guess you are all responsible men and would never leave your girl if she happens to get pregnant unwanted but there are ALOT of guys who runs as far as they can if they get to know their girl is pregnant. If she goes through the pregnancy she has a connection to that child forever even if she gives it up to a foster home after it's born, as you say is a solution to abortion. It's not that simple.
You make it really easy for yourself to put it in black or white and it feels like you think it's an easy decision that you just leave behind when it's done. It's NOT, an abortion is something the woman carry with her for the rest of her life with the question wether it was right or not.

What a I know is that if it ever happens to me, I will be devistated because I do feel in my heart that it is a murder but the practical me just says that I can't go on with the pregnancy.
Me too is scared by the numbers of abortion, and I promise you, you don't want to see the swedish ones....

Once again, I do respect your opinion but how strong you ever feel about something you should always be able to see the other side of the coin. Nothing is just black or white even if it might be to you.

Thank you!

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Old 02-11-2002, 01:15 PM   #28
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me too. is a victim of incest or rape supposed to keep the baby because it's morally "right?" if they're in school and unable to "disappear" for several months to have the baby and arrange its adoption. not everyone has the luxury of that.

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Old 02-11-2002, 01:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissZooropa:
First a question, was it really 6,000,000 ENDED pregnancies?
since the abortion rate is 1/6 of this, i'm assuming the other 5/6 are miscarriages, or even worse, the mother died while pregnant.

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Old 02-11-2002, 01:42 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes:
since the abortion rate is 1/6 of this, i'm assuming the other 5/6 are miscarriages, or even worse, the mother died while pregnant.

Compared to the swedish stats it was about 100000 born babys, 500 born dead and 30000 abortion. I have troubles seeing 180000 (30000 to be 1/6 of ended pregnancies if I roughly compared with the US stats) ended pregnancies here while only 100000 babys were born. You see the missed logic here? More then double of ended pregnancies compared to born babies. Maybe it's just me that have a hard time seeing 2/3 of all pregnancies being ended, one way or the other.

If you take 6000000 pregnancies to 250 000 000 citizen in US, the figures seems more realistic compared to 100000 to 9 000 000 here in Sweden.

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