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Old 06-27-2007, 02:13 PM   #76
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Originally posted by diamond
[B]
I guess you glossed over or ignored this :
Christ never said there should be no death penalty.
Christ never said I shouldn't get really made and kick my cat. Christ never said I shouldn't do a lot of things, but common sense says I won't. I really don't care what Christ never said I shouldn't do. I care what Christ said I SHOULD do.


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And I understand your point, it's a very good point, and that's why one has to absolutely certain that the person being put to death is guilty of the crime.
So what tactical strategies can you provide that can realistically accomplish this?


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For the ppl that were wrongly put the death, that responsibility falls on the prosecutor's shoulder, he or she will have to answer for the innocent lives they took, what they knew, and what they did. Not a pretty sight for some prosecutors in the hereafter.
No, that is dead wrong. IMO, that's a very immature understanding of how the courts work. The responsibility falls on the PEOPLE'S shoulder, as in, the jurors, our court system in general, the people of this country, collectively speaking. It's not the prosecutor that puts people in jail, it's jurors like you and I that allow our own biases and religious convictions to cloud our judgment and fill in the blanks.


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And I think we understand the what the purpose of our lives differently as well.
I have no clue what you mean by this. I don't recall making any personal statements in this thread regarding the purpose of our lives.


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some *innocent* ppl would still be alive had the death penalty been issued in the above noted circumstances.
So why not just advocate that those convicted of murder one stay in prison for life? Why is *death* so much more appropriate?


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I'm not responsible for ppl who choose evil whether or not there is a death penalty or not. God has allowed ppl to have free will for his purpopses. It's up for us to decide in this life, whether we aceppt his Son or not, and by giving us free will he let's us govern ourselves.
Well, maybe this is the heart of the issue then. I'm not personally responsible for other people's actions, but as a citizen of the State and a member of the jury pool, I AM responsible for having a clear and objective understanding of our justice system. Whether or not I can sniff out Biblical references that might have something to do with killing other people has no relevance because our courts are based on legislation, statutes, precedent, etc. not the Bible. IMO, it's irrelevant and petty to make judicial decisions based on what we would prefer the court system to look like. Even if I did condone the death penalty (which I did for a very, very long time), I would snicker at the notion that it's acceptable to use Biblical exegesis as my foundation for supporting the death penalty in the courts. We are not a theocracy, and until we are, we might as well support/oppose things like the death penalty based on evidence and argumentation that is actually recognized and supported by the judicial system. Like I said, I really don't care if people support the death penalty, that's their right, but it just looks so stupid to be using Scripture like it's actually going to convince the government that their position is valid.
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Old 06-27-2007, 02:47 PM   #77
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:11 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje






So why not just advocate that those convicted of murder one stay in prison for life? Why is *death* so much more appropriate?




Because it doesn't work, and there is a finality to the perpetuator's crime.
Some convicted murderers serving life have gotten out for good behavior and killed again, some condemned killers have escaped and killed again.

Some killers who initially got sentenced with "no possiblity of parole" later petitioned their sentences were then released later for good behavior and went out and killed again.

As far as going round and round on the other issues, time constraints limit anymore dialouging at the present.

dbs


As far as rehashing other things, I won't.
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:12 PM   #79
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I think Lies pretty much covered it for me.

My biggest reason for opposing the death penalty is the possibility of the innocent being put to death.

I don't see the NEED for a death penalty.

That said right now--and I'm still in flux on this--my feeling is that there are times when the taking of human life is a necessity. A horrific one, but a necessity nonetheless. Certain warfare situations, some abortions, maybe even certain death penalty situations. I also believe that taking another human life exacts a terrible toll on the humanity of the person who does it.

I realize that won't sit well with everyone--heck it doesn't entirely sit well with me, but at least it's consistent.

And I'm not going to try to use Biblical evidence to support that. It is what it is.
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:15 PM   #80
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Originally posted by diamond


Children are innocent,
You've obviously never been a teacher.

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Originally posted by diamond

Christ said so.

Where? He commends that faith of little children, he says he values them, He says that we must become like little children to enter heaven but none of that says anything about their "innocence."
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:16 PM   #81
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Originally posted by diamond


Because it doesn't work, and there is a finality to the perpetuator's crime.
Some convicted murderers serving life have gotten out for good behavior and killed again, some condemned killers have escaped and killed again.

Some killers who initially got sentenced with "no possiblity of parole" later petitioned their sentences were then released later for good behavior and went out and killed again.

As far as going round and round on the other issues, time constraints limit anymore dialouging at the present.

dbs


As far as rehashing other things, I won't.
Well, that's a real shame because I'd like to hear some specific examples of the above having happened.
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:39 PM   #82
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diamond, after that essay you wrote on the evils of racism, are you comfortable knowing that a black man is far more likely to be sentenced to death by a white jury than a white man who has committed the same crime?
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:50 PM   #83
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some of you do not have the intellectual bandwidth nor girth to wrap your brain around the wisdom of my posts.

and irvine you know better to put up a weak argument like that

if u have money to defend yourself, whether you're black white or purple, you usually are able to avoid the DP.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:11 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

Christ never said there should be no death penalty.
C'mon, that statement is ridiculous. Did Christ really have to say every single crime that is wrong for you to be sure? Christ never said a lot of things. He spoke in generalities, hoping we people of earth would have the common sense to realize what he's talking about. As Lies said, Christ never said not to kick an animal out of fury, does that mean we can?

If you think people deserve finality, that's fine, but there's no biblical backing for it. Biblical backing would be things Christ does say, not doesn't say.

"Thou shalt not kill."
"Let him who is without sin be the first to cast a stone."
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:14 PM   #85
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And I understand your point, it's a very good point, and that's why one has to absolutely certain that the person being put to death is guilty of the crime.
I have no problem with DNA evidence vindicating a condemned prisoner.

There is no way to absolutely know if this person was guilty, even with DNA, so your whole argument is shot.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:16 PM   #86
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And I understand your point, it's a very good point, and that's why one has to absolutely certain that the person being put to death is guilty of the crime.
I have no problem with DNA evidence vindicating a condemned prisoner.

For the ppl that were wrongly put the death, that responsibility falls on the prosecutor's shoulder, he or she will have to answer for the innocent lives they took, what they knew, and what they did. Not a pretty sight for some prosecutors in the hereafter.

The flip side of the argument is that there have been convicted murderers that after having served their sentence went out and killed again. What do you say about that?
That wouldn't have happened if the were put to death in the first place.
Wow.

The fact that our justice system is based around the idea that things are "beyond a reasonable doubt" as opposed to "an absolute certainty" speaks volumes about the problems with that statement.

And to state that every instance of an innocent man found guilty is a result of prosecutor lies is just as obsurd.

And to that I say, that's why we have life without parole.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:17 PM   #87
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some of you do not have the intellectual bandwidth nor girth to wrap your brain around the wisdom of my posts.
That's pretty insulting, when there are plenty, me included, who find your statements to not be filled with wisdom.

I'm 16 years old by the way.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:20 PM   #88
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Originally posted by diamond
if u have money to defend yourself, whether you're black white or purple, you usually are able to avoid the DP.


so ... why continue to suppor the death penalty if it only applies to poor people?
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:26 PM   #89
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some of you do not have the intellectual bandwidth nor girth to wrap your brain around the wisdom of my posts.
That's because your wisdom "infra-wisdom" to us.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:31 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




so ... why continue to suppor the death penalty if it only applies to poor people?
i can't be responsible for a flawed system, nor the improper use of free will by rich ppl.

dbs
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