Ted Haggard -- still not straight (should he just pray harder?) - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-06-2008, 11:34 PM   #61
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
To arbitrarily dimiss Dr. Reisman as a "random conservative" makes you sound as bigoted as the ppl you claim are bigots.
Haven't you read the news? I think cultural relativism and "tolerance" (as defined under that framework) is crap, and, as such, I don't have to "tolerate intolerance." Instead, I'll let the facts and logic speak for itself.

"Dr." Reisman, due to her lack of credibility within the scientific world and her blatant political/ideological biases, is not a reliable source to critique science-based sexuality research.

That is all there is to it. She is a random conservative that holds a distinctly minority opinion that is not supported at all by mainstream science. Period. No "bigotry" involved.
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 11:45 PM   #62
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 03:50 AM
A doctorate in Communications doesn't qualify someone as expert counsel on human psychology and sexuality, nor as expert evaluator of studies conducted according to scientific method. And more to the point, cut-and-paste snapshot summaries of whichever scholar's stances on whatever topic isn't a substitute for articulating an actual argument. If you want to integrate it into one, fine, but there's not much to discuss if you don't also own up to your own convictions on the topic.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 11:49 PM   #63
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
A doctorate in Communications...
I was wondering about that....
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 01:37 AM   #64
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 12:50 PM
The lack of qualifications isn't as significant as the content of the post, sex education is modifying America's youth (actually a very good thing; given incidences of unwanted pregnancy and STDs being lower with sex-ed), the pro-censorship attitude shows a complete disregard for free speech. Parading such a player is not supporting that position, it does however reinforce the type of repressive atmosphere that produces freaks like Haggard (by that I am not talking about his sexuality, rather the apparent attitude towards it).
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 08:40 AM   #65
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:50 PM
Ted needs to enroll at Michigan University and "learn" how to be gay.
English 317, Prof. David Halperin
"How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality and Initiation"
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 09:40 AM   #66
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
Ted needs to enroll at Michigan University and "learn" how to be gay.
English 317, Prof. David Halperin
"How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality and Initiation"
It's probably some professor trying to be "hip" by creating some provocative course title for an otherwise mundane topic.

You see it all the time with news promotions, where they make an otherwise ordinary and boring story seem "new" and "exciting."
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 09:44 AM   #67
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


It's probably some professor trying to be "hip" by creating some provocative course title for an otherwise mundane topic.



I have to admit I got suckered into a few of those fun sounding classes. Was I ever irritated when they turned out to be boring as hell. Helps fine tune the bullshit meter though, so I guess they were good for something.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 09:49 AM   #68
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:50 PM
Quote:
ENGLISH 317. Literature and Culture.

Section 002 — How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality and Initiation.

Credits: (3; 2 in the half-term).

Instructor(s): David M Halperin (halperin@umich.edu)

Course Description:

Just because you happen to be a gay man doesn't mean that you don't have to learn how to become one. Gay men do some of that learning on their own, but often we learn how to be gay from others, either because we look to them for instruction or because they simply tell us what they think we need to know, whether we ask for their advice or not.

This course will examine the general topic of the role that initiation plays in the formation of gay male identity. We will approach it from three angles: (1) as a sub-cultural practice — subtle, complex, and difficult to theorize — which a small but significant body of work in queer studies has begun to explore; (2) as a theme in gay male writing; and (3) as a class project, since the course itself will constitute an experiment in the very process of initiation that it hopes to understand.

In particular, we will examine a number of cultural artifacts and activities that seem to play a prominent role in learning how to be gay: Hollywood movies, grand opera, Broadway musicals, and other works of classical and popular music, as well as camp, diva-worship, drag, muscle culture, taste, style, and political activism. Are there a number of classically 'gay' works such that, despite changing tastes and generations, all gay men, of whatever class, race, or ethnicity, need to know them, in order to be gay? What is there about gay identity that explains the gay appropriation of these works? What do we learn about gay male identity by asking not who gay men are but what it is that gay men do or like? One aim of exploring these questions is to approach gay identity from the perspective of social practices and cultural identifications rather than from the perspective of gay sexuality itself. What can such an approach tell us about the sentimental, affective, or subjective dimensions of gay identity, including gay sexuality, that an exclusive focus on gay sexuality cannot?

At the core of gay experience there is not only identification but disidentification. Almost as soon as I learn how to be gay, or perhaps even before, I also learn how not to be gay. I say to myself, 'Well, I may be gay, but at least I'm not like that!' Rather than attempting to promote one version of gay identity at the expense of others, this course will investigate the stakes in gay identifications and disidentifications, seeking ultimately to create the basis for a wider acceptance of the plurality of ways in which people determine how to be gay.
Apparently it's been offered for about 7 or 8 years.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 09:57 AM   #69
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
Apparently it's been offered for about 7 or 8 years.
It doesn't change my initial point. That course description is exactly what I was talking about. He just put a provocative label on a course about "gay subculture," which, like it or not, exists all over America and the world. It is no different than taking a course about "African American subculture," which most people would consider to be uncontroversial.
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 10:12 AM   #70
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 03:50 AM
Indy, you did unterstand, though, that this course aims at people that already knew they were gay but didn't know much about gay subculture, or people that aren't gay but want to learn about this subculture? It's not to teach a straight man how to be homosexual in order to turn him gay, so what's your point?
__________________
Vincent Vega is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 10:33 AM   #71
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


Apparently it's been offered for about 7 or 8 years.


and you'll find that most cultural studies classes revolve around the notion that most cultural identities -- in fact, all cultural identities -- are ones that require a certain amount of conscious or subconscious performance in order for one to achieve such an identity.

gay is an identity. there are performative aspects of being gay. just like there are performative aspects of being black or Jewish or a right wing Christian Conservative. and much of a gay identity, in particular, is defining not just how you fit in with such a community, but also how you do not fit in with the community, and it's your points of difference with the community as a whole that becomes perhaps the most important building blocks in the self-creation of coherent, complex identity.

what's insulting -- and this isn't the first place that i've come across some kind of manufactured "outrage" about this class -- is that not only is it degrading cultural studies as a whole, but it's quite true that such a class would never have ever caught anyone's attention if you just removed the word "gay" and removed it with, say, "Jewish."

but the conservatives have tried to spin this as if it's some gay male who's just let it slip that being gay really is at some level a choice, that it is taught by older gays to impressionable 19 year old males who maybe had kind of distant fathers and overbearing mothers, you know, those kids "at risk" for homosexuality.

and it's one class out of, what, 4000 at Michigan any given semester?
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-07-2008, 11:35 AM   #72
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,420
Local Time: 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Dr. Reisman
honestly... she needs to leave porn alone.


__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 02-07-2008, 11:37 AM   #73
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,420
Local Time: 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
Ted needs to enroll at Michigan University and "learn" how to be gay.
English 317, Prof. David Halperin
"How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality and Initiation"
why is this any different from a course in feminism?

there's plenty of college courses that touch on different aspects of life... why is this one any different from any of those?
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 02-07-2008, 12:01 PM   #74
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


honestly... she needs to leave porn alone.





porn: feminists and christianists coming together!
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-07-2008, 12:04 PM   #75
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,420
Local Time: 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511





porn: feminists and christianists coming together!
i'd watch it
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com