Teachers on Strike - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-22-2002, 08:54 PM   #16
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
You might not love it so much if you foundthat the train you had to make in order to get to the flight you paid for has been cancelled without notice because of a random strike.
Exactly.

Ant.
__________________

__________________
Anthony is offline  
Old 01-23-2002, 03:57 AM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:16 PM
I will only state this. Inasmuch as business may have the ability to create cheap wages, labor should have the right to unionize, strike, and protest it in all sectors of society. That is why I love France...never afraid to be vocal. There is such a thing as checks and balances.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 01-24-2002, 03:35 AM   #18
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:16 PM
I will happily accept a temporary inconvenience knowing that labor is fighting for its rights. Everyone is entitled to a fair wage, and it would be selfish of me to say that person X shouldn't be allowed to strike, because I might get inconvenienced. Business should be more apt to want to settle the strike, knowing that people are angry.

And there are no such things as "random strikes." Unions work under contracts and strike only when they cannot negotiate a suitable contract after the existing one has expired. Contrary to popular folklore, people in unions want to work and don't strike lightly; but sometimes it is necessary.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 01-24-2002, 03:51 AM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
And there are no such things as "random strikes."
You've not spent much time in France, have you. lol.
__________________
sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 01-24-2002, 10:18 PM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
Certainly, I can't speak about the level of difficulty in Australia, but I can speak with some confidence about the relative difficulty of the majors at my alma mater, Auburn University in the southeastern United States.

The requirements of the computer science undergraduate program has been loosened since I went through the curriculum (to my dismay, physics has been dropped; it's still required for software engineering, our sister program), but I went through a full year of calculus, a full year of physics, and two quarters of chemistry - and that's to simply reach the actual computer science courses, which included networking, databases, algorithms, circuits, and operating systems.

Electrical engineering? A year and a half of calculus, a year of physics, a half-year of chemistry.

Physics? A year of general physics, a year and a half of calculus, and individual classes devoted to quantum physics, electromagnetism, and thermodynamics.

Pre-vet leading to vet school? A year each of biology, chemistry, and organic chemistry.

Education? Well, those I know who were not obviously academically minded became elementary education majors. They have to take "a core biology sequence", courses that are simplified compared to the biology courses that pre-vet majors take. They also take one semester of "Foundations of Physics", another introductory course, and no calculus whatsoever.

Since zooropamanda asked, they also don't have to take a fifth year.

Granted, the education major can actually be more difficult than the elementary education undergraduate program given above; one can major in secondary education, requiring you to know the field of interest (math, science, etc.), or one can get a master's degree.

But, again, you are not required to take any difficult math or science courses.

Again, no hard biology, no hard physics, and no calculus.

The time spent on projects may be comparable; I don't know, honestly. But my observations have told me that education majors have a bit more free time than engineering majors.

Even assuming that the amount of time spent is equivalent, the core classes are easier, and the major classes are easier - Child Psychology included, because the majors I mention have program-specific courses (thermodynamics, algorithms, etc.) that are at least as hard.

Yes, education is harder than most business courses. Honestly, between the easier curricula and the generally higher pay for business graduates, I can see why that could attract even more students than education.

But there is no way that education is as difficult as programs in medicine, math, and engineering.

I'm sorry if you're offended by the publicizing of this unpopular theory, but I do think it's true - and I think anyone who honestly looks at the curricula will reach the same conclusion.
I take issue with this characterization as my wife is an Education grad from Auburn. I am leaning towards inviting her to reply to this post, but until then, I'll have to do. An education major OBVIOUSLY wouldn't have pre-vet level biology requirements in order to mold the minds of elementary or high school students.

It has a lot to do also with interests AND talents. In high school, we had a very smart A.P. Chemistry teacher, very smart in the scientific sense, but not in the teaching sense. Thus, she was a great scientist, but a horrible teacher for high schoolers. Some are cut out to teach, others aren't.

Bubba, you might not have done well in certain education classes because, when it came time to be in front of the classroom, you may not have been a good teacher, just as someeducators might not be cut out for computer science or Chemistry.

Nonetheless, this thread was about teachers in Edmonton striking over a $26,000CDN salary. That is about $16,000.00US$ and it is terribly and unacceptably low. Salaries aren't efven that low in the poorest counties of Alabama. And I thought our education finding was bad.

~U2Alabama
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 01-24-2002, 10:22 PM   #21
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 09:16 PM
And p.s. it is useless to debate whether one field of study is "easier" than the other. I studied History along with Religion, English Comp., Business (another one you call "easy;" go find an "easy" MBA) and Political Science, and I can't count all of the brilliant, dean's list science majors who often sought help from me on simple writing assignments; and I never even made the dean's list!

~U2Alabama

[This message has been edited by U2Bama (edited 01-24-2002).]
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 01-24-2002, 10:55 PM   #22
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 03:16 AM
I completely negate the notion that a teacher is less valuable, or less qualified or less 'learned' than other professions, and I do think they deserve higher wages. However, going back to Melon's point....

Melon, you simply can't have some members of the labor market striking, such as policemen, firemen and other people who are ESSENTIAL to the rest of society. I'm sorry, but it should be made law (and it is in some countries)that some jobs are free of striking, simply because there are other interests to be taken into consideration. This, while being a tad unfair, should be taken into consideration by those who enter such labor markets, the fact is the economy and society is based on the actions of all concerned, and we can't have some people not performing simpy because they're unhappy. It isn't logical as it isn't beneficial.

Plus, there are some people who are just complete prats when it comes to the topic of 'striking'. Here, in Britain, you even get FOOTBALLERS, bleeding footballers, striking because they're not happy with their paychecks. This is highly ridiculous, because if you ask me, if a person gets paid a mere PENNY (or cent) for kicking a piece of plastic across a field, that penny is a penny too much. They have no grounds upon which to strike, and should be arrested simply for the complete cheek they show. Call it dictatorial, but we would live in a far more grateful and less spoilt society if we had people who were happy with what they got. I don't mean to say that noone should be allowed to strike, sometimes industrial action is needed in some situations, but sometimes there are higher issues at hand.

Ant.
__________________
Anthony is offline  
Old 01-25-2002, 01:56 AM   #23
Refugee
 
Achtung Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: One Nation. Under God.
Posts: 1,513
Local Time: 10:16 PM
Certainly, abilities and interests have a LOT to do with whether a certain individual finds a program of study difficult, but is everyone HONESTLY suggesting that there are no easy majors? That they're all equally difficult?

Come on.

Not to be completely cynical, but there are some student athletes and donors' children who have very little business being in college, and yet they find a major they can handle.

Beyond that, there is, at least to computer science majors, a CLEARLY easy major: Management Information Systems. Honestly, M.I.S. is computer science for dummies and slackers. There is NO class that makes C.S. guys take pause, in terms of difficulty. The students don't take calculus or physics, they don't take a single programming class until senior year (SENIOR YEAR!), and it is regularly the case that C.S. majors get overwhelmed and change to M.I.S. - but the reverse NEVER happens.

Suggesting that all majors are created equally hard is to suggest that M.I.S. is as difficult as C.S. I cannot do that in good conscience, even for the sake of making everyone feel better about their own degrees.

Now, I *might* concede that education is as difficult as a major as others, in its own ways, but it seems to me that it still has the appearance of being an easier major, thus attracting more students than the current economic system needs.
__________________
Achtung Bubba is offline  
Old 01-25-2002, 08:52 AM   #24
Refugee
 
Klodomir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,198
Local Time: 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
You've not spent much time in France, have you. lol.
Ack! The French go on strike if it rains three days in a row. Not to mention closing the roads and basically holding people hostage who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. No, striving to be like that is going too far.
__________________

__________________
Klodomir is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com