Teacher Suspened after comments about Bush

[Justin24]

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?...MPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

Comparing some of the stuff Bush Said in the State of The Union Eerily similar to Hitlers speeches, etc... A student recorded all the teachers speeches and felt that the teacher was being baised. The school put the teacher on leave after hearing the audio recordings.

Audio recording in story.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

Well, I'm a teacher....I've got students in my room right now so I haven't listened to the tape, but no teacher has the right to go on biased rants with impressionable students. I'm a social studies teacher so we discuss hot topics all of the time---I take pride in the fact that my students have absolutely no clue where I stand on the issues. Some think I'm a liberal, some think I'm conservative, it's great.

Edit: I'm really not a bad teacher for being on here during the school day--most of my students are on a field trip so I'm monitering a 3 student study hall

 

[Justin24]

A teacher should be like (The sepration of church and state) They are there to teach not give a one sided rant.

 

[Irvine511]

i think it's scary when we suspend teachers for what they think, whether it's idiots on the Right, as it seems to be in this case, or the idiots on the Left who were so disgusted at Larry Summers and his *suggestion* about women and math which eventually lead to him stepping down as president of Harvard.



[q]"I'm not in anyway implying that you should agree with me, I don't even know if I'm necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think about these issues more in depth and not to just take things from the surface."
[/q]



i suppose the thought police come from all sides of the political spectrum. instead of political correctness, we've got Patriotic Correctness.

 

[LPU2]

Some idiot kid without doesn't like his teacher's political views, so he gets him suspended. This used to be America.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

Some idiot kid without doesn't like his teacher's political views, so he gets him suspended. This used to be America.

Students have the right to learn both sides of the story, not one sided rants.

Any teacher who doesn't follow that should have their license suspended to retake some teachers education classes at the local university.

 

[Justin24]

Some idiot kid without doesn't like his teacher's political views, so he gets him suspended. This used to be America.

You can also say the same with Teachers being pricks. There was a story I read a while back, locally. In highschool you can create your own clubs. Well they had many different clubs, Gay-Lesbian, Transgender club, Muslim club, La Raza club, etc.. Well a group of highschool students wanted to create a Chrisitan club but were not allowed to due to seperation of church and state and some teachers were offended about having a christian club.

 

[doubleU]

You can also say the same with Teachers being pricks. There was a story I read a while back, locally. In highschool you can create your own clubs. Well they had many different clubs, Gay-Lesbian, Transgender club, Muslim club, La Raza club, etc.. Well a group of highschool students wanted to create a Chrisitan club but were not allowed to due to seperation of church and state and some teachers were offended about having a christian club.

That makes no sense. How can you have one religion and not another? Where did you get this story from?

 

[Irvine511]

Students have the right to learn both sides of the story, not one sided rants.

Any teacher who doesn't follow that should have their license suspended to retake some teachers education classes at the local university.

what would have been "the other side"? was the teacher deliberately withholding information? or was the teacher trying to get students to notice historical parallels between ALL politicians and perhaps get them to see the similarities between the blueprints of political systems, democratic or fascist, and perhaps to further demonstrate how democracy can devolve into fascism if we are not alert and aware.

sometimes, there isn't "another side" to an issue -- and bad thinking comes in when we make equivocations between two things that should not be considered in the same stentence.

and regardless -- why should we shield high school students from different points of view? i hear a screaming out on the right that conservative students and faculty are muzzled in academia; how is this case any different?

once again:

[q]"I'm not in anyway implying that you should agree with me, I don't even know if I'm necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think about these issues more in depth and not to just take things from the surface."[/q]

 

[Irvine511]

You can also say the same with Teachers being pricks. There was a story I read a while back, locally. In highschool you can create your own clubs. Well they had many different clubs, Gay-Lesbian, Transgender club, Muslim club, La Raza club, etc.. Well a group of highschool students wanted to create a Chrisitan club but were not allowed to due to seperation of church and state and some teachers were offended about having a christian club.

in any public school, students can have any religious club they want provided it is held after school and attendence is voluntary.

 

[Justin24]

That makes no sense. How can you have one religion and not another? Where did you get this story from?

I will search for the story.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

what would have been "the other side"? was the teacher deliberately withholding information? or was the teacher trying to get students to notice historical parallels between ALL politicians and perhaps get them to see the similarities between the blueprints of political systems, democratic or fascist, and perhaps to further demonstrate how democracy can devolve into fascism if we are not alert and aware.

sometimes, there isn't "another side" to an issue -- and bad thinking comes in when we make equivocations between two things that should not be considered in the same stentence.

and regardless -- why should we shield high school students from different points of view? i hear a screaming out on the right that conservative students and faculty are muzzled in academia; how is this case any different?

once again:

[q]"I'm not in anyway implying that you should agree with me, I don't even know if I'm necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think about these issues more in depth and not to just take things from the surface."[/q]

I've listened to the rant now, and as a teacher I believe it is pretty inappropriate. Very very one sided. We aren't talking about college students here, we're talking about high schoolers. They don't have the background knowledge or the experience to weed through biases and that sort. They are EXTREMELY impressionable. You make arguements that would work fantastic in a university or a class with advanced students and high school seniors, but this sort of rant is just not appropriate for younger students. You need to give them the appropriate background info and the base knowledge before you can go throwing out "historical parallels." I guess if you aren't a teacher, you probably just can't understand. Give the kids both sides and let them make up their own minds. This teacher basically likes to hear himself talk and is pushing the students towards his viewpoint.

 

[Irvine511]

I've listened to the rant now, and as a teacher I believe it is pretty inappropriate. Very very one sided. We aren't talking about college students here, we're talking about high schoolers. They don't have the background knowledge or the experience to weed through biases and that sort. They are EXTREMELY impressionable. You make arguements that would work fantastic in a university or a class with advanced students and high school seniors, but this sort of rant is just not appropriate for younger students. You need to give them the appropriate background info and the base knowledge before you can go throwing out "historical parallels." I guess if you aren't a teacher, you probably just can't understand. Give the kids both sides and let them make up their own minds. This teacher basically likes to hear himself talk and is pushing the students towards his viewpoint.

well, i have been a teacher, and my brother is a teacher, and so was my mother, and i went to public school for 12 years, so i think i have a better-than-average understanding of what goes on in a classroom.

i agree that a balanced -- though, again, what would the other side be here? -- approach is best, but i think that suspending a teacher over something like this, especially when he closes it with saying that his intention is to get someone to think beyond the surface. i'd say it is clear that he did his job as this particular student seemed so upset that he brought in a tape recorder -- i'm not saying that the appropriateness of the classroom content should be discussed with the teacher, but that suspension sends precisely the wrong message to the students.

 

[mikal]

teaching kids that Bush is a bad man is not a bad thing, IMO.

 

[Justin24]

teaching kids that Bush is a bad man is not a bad thing, IMO.

Wow. Ok yes bush is a fuck up but to say that is wrong. Hell why not tell kids Communism is right and Democracy is wrong and how we should live like the chinese. Or hell if you put it into that light I bet you would love to say how Hitler is a saint compared to Bush or how Stalin was more of a man than Bush.


In my above post from earlier. I was wrong about the muslim thing. here is an article though.
http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/44.html

 

[BonosSaint]

Hannity's been encouraging this kind of taping for weeks now so he can play it on his show. I don't think the teacher was justified in bringing in his personal political views (although we often only get part of the story and find out the real story is a little different, so I'll reserve judgment on this until all the context is in. I've gotten tired of my own kneejerk reactions, although at first glance, I'm not sure that an acceptable context exists.) Same way I don't think a teacher is justified in bringing in his personal religious views. But this taping and being encouraged to report on your teachers is a little creepy to me. It's got too many uncomfortable parallels. Did the student make a complaint that got ignored prior to this?

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

. Very very one sided. We aren't talking about college students here, we're talking about high schoolers. They don't have the background knowledge or the experience to weed through biases and that sort. They are EXTREMELY impressionable. You make arguements that would work fantastic in a university or a class with advanced students and high school seniors, but this sort of rant is just not appropriate for younger students. You need to give them the appropriate background info and the base knowledge before you can go throwing out "historical parallels." I guess if you aren't a teacher, you probably just can't understand. Give the kids both sides and let them make up their own minds. This teacher basically likes to hear himself talk and is pushing the students towards his viewpoint.

Right, because history isn't one-sided at all.
I think you're underestimating high school students.

I teach high school and we talk about the news every day. In fact, my students have an assignment every day to write in their news journals. Do my kids know my political views? Yeah, probably. Do I offer my opinion on certain issues? Yes, absolutely. Do I rant? Yes. But that's part of my act.

And Irvine, I you.

 

[Dreadsox]

#1 The class was GEOGRAPHY.

#2 The teacher had no business making these remarks in a class about Geography.

#3 Suspension with pay may be extreme.

#4 Teachers have a curriculum to teach. If the teacher is ranting on a daily basis in the classroom and not teaching the curriculum, TAXPAYERS who are paying for the education deserve an answer as to what they are paying the teacher for.

#5 In a time when we as educators are more an more under the gun to demonstrate results through testing there is not too many days I want to hear teachers veering off the path of the curriculum.

#6 I listened to the tapes today. I nearly drove off of the road when I heard what class he was allegedly teaching.

 

[Dreadsox]

i think it's scary when we suspend teachers for what they think, whether it's idiots on the Right, as it seems to be in this case, or the idiots on the Left who were so disgusted at Larry Summers and his *suggestion* about women and math which eventually lead to him stepping down as president of Harvard.



[q]"I'm not in anyway implying that you should agree with me, I don't even know if I'm necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think about these issues more in depth and not to just take things from the surface."
[/q]



i suppose the thought police come from all sides of the political spectrum. instead of political correctness, we've got Patriotic Correctness.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything you have said.

It has everything to do with the fact that there are curricular expectations in place. The educational system is more often resistent to being told what they are to teach.

It has everything to do witht he fact that many teachers have lost touch with the fact that their classroom is not a kingdom in which they can do, say, and teach what it is they want.

It has everything to do with demanding our teachers TEACH the curriculum put forward by the town.

 

[Dreadsox]

Bush=Hitler
Capitalism is the root of all evil.
The Us should be invaded by Iran....

The title of the thread is misleading...

He was not suspended because of the Bush comments alone...

He was suspended because he was not teaching his subject matter.

Want to bet he was warned about it before?

If he was in his first three years of teaching I would let him go.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

#1 The class was GEOGRAPHY.

I would still do news journals in geography class. I would talk about the news in any social studies class. Personally, I don't mind developing critical thinking skills or self/global awareness for 5 minutes or so a day. I know that test results are important but I can't focus on them so much I forget why I became a teacher.

 

[Dreadsox]

I would still do news journals in geography class. I would talk about the news in any social studies class. Personally, I don't mind developing critical thinking skills or self/global awareness for 5 or minutes a day. I know that test results are important but I can't focus on them so much I forget why I became a teacher.

Have you listened to the tapes?

If this were a daily occurence, the manner and tone alone concerns me.

The topic he was covering was not Global awareness or current events.

The state of the union was not this week.
Bombing Columbia has not been in the news to my knowledge.

And accountability for the content you teach will be MORE important should the next part of NCLB pass. It will not be just about making AYP, but also making sure your top students needs are being met without a loss in the gains.

Good teaching DOES NOT MEAN ignoring the curriculm. Good teachers can still do meaningful things with the curriculum. Good teachers can take the curriculum and help their students deveop critical thinking skills. It does not have to be adjenda driven nor does it have to be what the teacher FEELS like teaching.

And five to ten minutes a day off of the curriculum = between 15-30 days of the school years worth of time....

No wonder Americans suck at geography.

 

[anitram]

Dread, how many teachers do you actually think don't stray from curriculum?

I had ones who talked about their children ad nauseum (think Kathie Lee Gifford), ones who complained about how their low salaries prevented them from buying nicer houses because they couldn't take on a bigger mortgage, a French teacher who brough us slides of her family vacation in France (how seeing pictures of her husband in swimming trunks in Nice was related to French grammar I'll never know), an algebra teacher who mused for a week about what excuse he could use to avoid having to do jury duty, and so on.

I'd be shocked to find a single teacher I had in high school who you could say stuck to simply teaching. Only in university when profs had structured lecture plans and raced through their material in a matter of 45 minutes did I actually witness teaching without extras.

 

[verte76]

I don't think teachers should say things this opinionated in a classroom. I don't care if it's leftist or rightist rhetoric, this was a geography class. I don't like Bush and I'm a lefty, but Dread is right, this is not what he was supposed to be teaching in this class.

 

[Dreadsox]

Dread, how many teachers do you actually think don't stray from curriculum?

I had ones who talked about their children ad nauseum (think Kathie Lee Gifford), ones who complained about how their low salaries prevented them from buying nicer houses because they couldn't take on a bigger mortgage, a French teacher who brough us slides of her family vacation in France (how seeing pictures of her husband in swimming trunks in Nice was related to French grammar I'll never know), an algebra teacher who mused for a week about what excuse he could use to avoid having to do jury duty, and so on.

I'd be shocked to find a single teacher I had in high school who you could say stuck to simply teaching. Only in university when profs had structured lecture plans and raced through their material in a matter of 45 minutes did I actually witness teaching without extras.

It does not make it right....

When schools are being taken over because their students cannot meet the curricular expectations, there is something wrong.

If a student can tape record their teachers that easily, catching them doing this, there is something wrong.

And ADMINISTRATORS need to get their asses out of their offices and into the classrooms more.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

rather than quote every thing he said, i'll just give an overall to dread

 

[anitram]

And ADMINISTRATORS need to get their asses out of their offices and into the classrooms more.

My Mom taught for about 10 years and then spent another 12 as a consultant before returning to the classroom and she said the reason she did it is because when you are sitting in an office and reading academic papers and research data and so on, you become out of touch with what happens in the the classroom.

I can't say I ever saw an administrator of any sort in a single class I had in high school. The sole exceptions were when profs from the teacher's college came to observe their students who had a 6 weeks practicum placement. But that was it.

 

[Irvine511]

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything you have said.

It has everything to do with the fact that there are curricular expectations in place. The educational system is more often resistent to being told what they are to teach.

It has everything to do witht he fact that many teachers have lost touch with the fact that their classroom is not a kingdom in which they can do, say, and teach what it is they want.

It has everything to do with demanding our teachers TEACH the curriculum put forward by the town.

do you think the student taped him because he was upset that the teacher was deviating from the curriculum, or do you think the student taped the teacher because he disagreed with the political nature of the discussion?

 

[Irvine511]

And Irvine, I you.

 

[Teta040]

I agree with Bonos Saint here.

This is NOT a college lecture. This is a high school class, where students are expected to learn on their own, without extracirricular "aids". (SATS and all). Tape recorders/recording devices DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT BELONG IN A HIGH SCHOOL CLASSROOM. In a freshman college lecture hall, say, Geology 101 with 400 students and arcane mounds of data.

I did not know Hannity encouraged students to bring recording devices into class, so he could air evidence of the supposed "liberal bias in education" on air. Even if it is inappropriate to "rant" in class (though with that disclaimer, you can't qualify it wholly as a rant) it is even more so wrong to have a recording device handy at all times, so you can be the Right (or left-wing) Thought Police. The notion that such as Hannity are training the Young Right to eavesdrop is chilling. Always it is a right-leaning student recording left-wing comments, not the other way around. (Id there have been such instances, I haven't heard of them.)

I wonder if right-leaning speakers at graduations, youth events, etc NEVER went off topic about Bill and Monica to their impressionable high school audiences in the late 90's? COME ON.

This all smacks of the Chinese Cultural Revolution in the 60's, when Chinese Youth were encouraged to spy on ( and if necessary, help to turn in) parents or relatives who they thought were "running dogs of capitalism." If you think this is a ridiculous analogy, our torture camps are a great place to begin the comparison to what we could become. (I've seen pics of Gitmo where the prisoners are not even aloowed to walk from prison block to prison blocl, but are chained to a sort of 2-wheeled cart and lain flat on their backs and wheeled from place to place.)