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Old 03-03-2005, 08:47 PM   #16
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A new update in the case.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6873319
Yelling 101 — At first, it had the makings of a Supreme Court separation of church and state case. Then it looked like "teachers gone wild." For a moment, it even evoked Watergate because there was a tape involved, and ten minutes on it, were missing. Now, it appears to be the saga of three high school kids who are simply morons with cameras, who live in Brick Township New Jersey, an appropriately named place — you know, thick as a brick. You may have already seen it on the internet; first, the web instant classic: kid won't stand for National Anthem, then teacher goes bonkers. Electronics teacher Stewart Mantel got all kinds of grief for that. But it turns out there was ten minutes missing from the original tape — of the students provoking Mantel. While recording on what was not as first reported, a camera inside a cell phone... but a hidden video recorder. And it turns out, that the teacher was only the latest victim of a group of Brick Township High students who regularly stage, film, and post images of their merry adventures. Which police have now discovered included, the destruction using baseball bats of Christmas displays at homes in the neighborhood — drinking, profanity, simulated violence. As it turns out, the day before the Anthem incident, some of these same students had saran-wrapped a younger kid to a desk. And that the "Anthem" tape was a set-up. School senior Corey Zappo told local reporters "we just knew Mr. Mantel was going to flip out because he frequently did and my friends and I thought it would be kind of funny to catch it" — catch it on tape, that is. Well, guess what? Brick Township police have now "caught" Mr. Zappo. They arrested him and two other kids on four counts of Criminal Mischief each. That’s worse than summer school.

****As a teacher this all too common; kids being jackasses and too many people in the community believing that the kids are just little angels that the teacher is too mean to.
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:44 PM   #17
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Well it was obvious that it was set up just the way it was film etc. But it still doesn't excuse the teacher's behavior. Especially if this is a regular thing for him and they knew he was going to react this way.

My opinion they should all be disciplined including the teacher.
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Old 03-04-2005, 04:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

My opinion they should all be disciplined including the teacher.
As a teacher...I agree
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Well it was obvious that it was set up just the way it was film etc. But it still doesn't excuse the teacher's behavior. Especially if this is a regular thing for him and they knew he was going to react this way.

My opinion they should all be disciplined including the teacher.
I'm a teacher and I don't condone the type of screaming in this clip one bit, BUT I do disagree with you about disciplining the teacher--outside of perhaps a verbal warning from administrators.


1) you said yourself the teacher was set up.

2) We have absolutely no idea what happened in the chunks of film that are missing. If the students provoked, harassed the teacher to the point of no return, then the teacher screaming is forgivable in my opinion.

That seems pretty unfair that you want to disipline the teacher when we don't know all the facts surrounding what really happend. Good thing we don't use this philosophy in courtrooms.
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:52 AM   #20
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Passing judgment based on video clips is always dangerous, and frequently done.
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Old 03-04-2005, 12:44 PM   #21
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Thanks for the update. The link I posted mentioned that we weren't getting the whole story, which I was hoping would come out eventually.



Quote:
Originally posted by ImOuttaControl
A new update in the case.


****As a teacher this all too common; kids being jackasses and too many people in the community believing that the kids are just little angels that the teacher is too mean to.

I'm not surprised and they seemed like disrespectful little jerks on the video. I wish the teacher hadn't gotten so upset but I can kind of see why he did.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Passing judgment based on video clips is always dangerous, and frequently done.
agreed
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Old 03-04-2005, 03:49 PM   #23
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Well, teachers are some of the worst treated people profession-wise anyway....they're generally poorly paid, little respected, and regularily ripped into by politicians who either blame them for not being good enough for thier jobs and in need of "standards" to make them perform better (hence, No Child Left behind) or lazy bastards who need to be taken down a peg (how hard are ceetain people trying to abolish the Teachers' Union. Well, it's obvious that teaching is the last profession still unionized and protects its workers, everyone else has been "McDonald's-ized"-we have part-time nurses, doctors, college professors--(at the State University of NY system, SUNY Albany, there is a severe shortage of classes right now b/c the SUNY system statewide has laid off some 1,000 full-time staf fin the past decade and at SUNY Albany, the largest of the state uni system, only about 50% of the courses are taught by a full-time professor)--even lawyers. But we don't have part-time high school or lower level teachers and BOY there are politicians out there who would LOVE to see this happen, so kids can be more easily politically infunced by their agendas. They'd love to have control. That's my conspiracy theory anyway.

Headache, I've never read a more truthful and cogent summary of what's really wrong. You're right; the teacher has no control anymore. Not in the areas that matter. But at the same time, parents expect the teacher to be the babysitter, and even the parent in certain areas.....'cause they are too damn lazy or uniterested in being parents themselves. That, and they have them diagnosed with ADHD or some damned trumped-up mental disorder (what the IS "social anxiety syndrome" anyway? Boy, what starving Third World kids or kids who do slave labor making our Nikes would do to have the luxury of having such exclusive attention.) I'm convinced that 80% of the kids on Prozac or Ritalin or whatever the heck the newest Merck hot seller is really don't need it.....they're just being KIDS, and need simple discipline, not a drug...... I know someone with a bipolar teen--I mean, who was REALLY bipolar, it's a lot more serious than these idots on sitcoms make out..it's more than just "mood swings"). THEY need drugs.

To bring U2 into this topic..this is a silly example, but I have to say it...if Paul Hewson was a teen in an American high school school today, he would have been diagnosed with every "syndrome" in the book , and that's BEFORE his mother died. Just for being HIM. But was he mentally ill? Did he have a "disorder"? Of course not. He was just a normal teen, with a charismatic personality and a hungering to explore the world around him. He could not keep still, or out of peoples' faces, I'll bet. No matter what trouble he must have stirred up, he was basically a good kid at heart. He didn't start turning violent and destrctive until after his mom died, but once he found the band and began his relationship with Ali, he calmed down. TO a degree. But under the system we have now, I can only imagine wthe disciplinary methods that would have used against him at this stage. Boy, this is a crazy straying from the topic huh? "Case number 401: Paul Hewson, circa 1976: the Teen From Hell. What would YOU do? Pass this one around the school board. )


Or take Jeremy himself, the teenage Eddie Vedder. How he recounted getting up in front of his class and putting a gun to his head. Good thing this happened before Columbine!!

While many kids are genuine pains in the rear, there are many more who are just KIDS, and all they need is a PARENT WHO CARES ABOUT THEIR LIVES. That's all. If anyhting, these drugs might be making a doscipline problem wrose. Hear the latest aobut Prozac, BTW?

THe sad thing is, when your kids who reach college artifically, enter those doors, there won't be any professors acing them through like in high school. Unless your dad is a cororate CEO or a political figure, you still have to do the work. Nobody will hold your hand. And in a world where foreign enrollment esp in the science and technology fields is down by a third in the past 3 yrs, due to thenew visa policy, the spotlight and pressure will be for American-born students to ptoduce even more. And NCLB won't help in producing the future workers of this country if these policies continue.
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Old 03-04-2005, 03:55 PM   #24
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perhaps

the teacher shoud be a judge

on American idol
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Old 03-05-2005, 03:03 AM   #25
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When I was in high school, I refused to stand and say the Pledge of Allegience (I think more to take a rebellious stand than any
great objection--testing out my anti-authority hubris). Teacher had never run into this before so wisely just ignored it. The teacher in this situation should have just ignored it. The controversy goes away immediately. End of story.

(PS, I still will not say the Pledge of Allegience...that justice for
all line is a lie to me...but I stand up respectfully and don't make any big deal out of it. If everybody else wants to say it, it's no skin off of my back. Nobody's paying attention to the words anyway. Same way with the Ten Commandments on public property--nobody's paying any attention to them. Lot of noise about nothing important.)
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I don't think the kid was exercising a political stance. He's probably an insolent little shit.

Melon
more than likely this is correct.

but if it's a political stance, he should be able to do as he pleases.

but how does the person who videotaped this get suspended?!

dumb...dumb...dumb.
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:05 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImOuttaControl


1) you said yourself the teacher was set up.
So? It was easy to set up because appartently he's done this before and they knew how he'd react. Being set up does not clear you from being an ass, yelling on a regular basis, and pulling chairs out from under people.


Quote:
Originally posted by ImOuttaControl

Good thing we don't use this philosophy in courtrooms.
It's also good we that we don't just clear people because they were set up. And that judges automatically always took the side of other judges.
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:34 PM   #28
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Seems as if the kids knew the teacher would go off if something like this happened and taped it because they knew it was comming. They set him up...

Suprised none of my friends have done that yet...
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