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Old 02-24-2008, 06:25 PM   #1
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Taxes - are you concerned about them going up?

Anyone at all concerned about taxes going up with a new democratic president? More so for Obama?

I did the math, and I'll be looking at about 5000 more per year. This is a huge factor for me, and a reason NOT to vote for him.

Should it matter? Will it matter to a voter? Shouldn't we all just do our part and pay more taxes? Up to say, 50% for the common good? Is the incentive to innovate, create, work hard, etc... going to leave?
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:28 PM   #2
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Re: Taxes - are you concerned about them going up?

Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Is the incentive to innovate, create, work hard, etc... going to leave?
What does innovation have to do with taxes?

I guess we should just keep defecit spending and run the dollar into the ground...
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
What does innovation have to do with taxes?
The drive to innovate, usually is accompanied by financial reward. So, what good is it, to make more money (develop a new product or idea, especially for a small business) if it only means it pushes you into the next bracket (those who make more than X) if you wind up paying more to the government?

It's also called capitalism in some circles.

This is a micro example, but think on a macro scale.

No, we could cut more government programs to pay back the deficit right? Like pull out of Iraq and don't look back.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
[B]

The drive to innovate, usually is accompanied by financial reward. So, what good is it, to make more money (develop a new product or idea, especially for a small business) if it only means it pushes you into the next bracket (those who make more than X) if you wind up paying more to the government?

It's also called capitalism in some circles.

this also gives you horrible, horrible movies and television that have been focused grouped and test marketed to an inch of their lives, and it puts more sex and violence up on the screen.

since that's what people pay for.

i know, big tangent, but i just dislike the assertion that profit motive always results in better products, and thusly, a better society.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:41 PM   #5
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So people will be scared to make more because they will have to pay more, even though they still make more at the end of the day...

And yes we could cut A LOT of government spending...
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:43 PM   #6
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If I were voting in my own self-interest, based on my salary (thank you corporate law), I would every time vote for the conservatives.

I have never voted for them, because my own self interest is not paramount to that of the social good. Furthermore, I am lucky to be earning what I earn and as much as it may sting when you see nearly half your cheque gone (our top marginal rate here is 46%), I'd rather pay all that money than have to survive on 50% or 30% of my salary.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:48 PM   #7
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Re: Taxes - are you concerned about them going up?

Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Anyone at all concerned about taxes going up with a new democratic president? More so for Obama?

I did the math, and I'll be looking at about 5000 more per year. This is a huge factor for me, and a reason NOT to vote for him.

Should it matter? Will it matter to a voter? Shouldn't we all just do our part and pay more taxes? Up to say, 50% for the common good? Is the incentive to innovate, create, work hard, etc... going to leave?

'I did the math'.

Neocon logic.

Don't you just love it.

Now pay close attention, here is a simple lesson in 'math'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USDebt.png
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:52 PM   #8
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It's interesting how the Danes are mostly fine with a top tax rate of 64% because it means they are covered by a strong social system (mind you, back in the 1990's they were majorily opposed to having their taxes raised), and in the US it's the total opposite.
And Denmark is doing great and the Danes one of the happiest folks in the world.
Sweden, having a similar system as Denmark, is now innovation leader. Obviously, the high taxes didn't stop too many from inventing.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Neocon logic.
fincanceguy,

what cute little irish colloquialism for applying what looks to be some hefty tax increases to my tax status, would you like me to use?
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:56 PM   #10
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Re: Taxes - are you concerned about them going up?

Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris

I did the math, and I'll be looking at about 5000 more per year. This is a huge factor for me, and a reason NOT to vote for him.
How else are we going to pay for this fucking war?
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Sweden, having a similar system as Denmark, is now innovation leader. Obviously, the high taxes didn't stop too many from inventing.
Good point Vega. I assume the gov sets aside some special programs for R&D, etc.. some tax breaks etc.. for new ventures. But regardless, a good example of how it hasn't hindered innovation. It's all relative of course. Even though you might be paying more taxes, one still would have a better standard of living.

I'm also assuming that they are pleased on the return on investment for their tax dollars in northern europe. Something I think that is not possible any time soon in the US. We're too big, too bureucratic to have a good ROI. Maybe at the county/city level. Usually by the time it hits the state level, the corruption and red tape, and laziness diminish a real result.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So people will be scared to make more because they will have to pay more, even though they still make more at the end of the day...
This is pretty much always my reaction too. I qualify as "lower middle class" by most definitions, and such concerns as I have about my family's economic future pretty much all boil down to wishing I made a (significantly) larger salary. Compared to that hypothetical difference, the amounts I lose to taxes just aren't enough to get worked up about.
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Old 02-24-2008, 07:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
How else are we going to pay for this fucking war?
Hmm... I don't think Obama was thinking of raising taxes to pay for the war... But regardless, point taken.
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Old 02-24-2008, 07:01 PM   #14
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i've never heard of anyone who thought, "yeah, i'd love to increase my salary by $20K within 5 years, but i'll get taxed a little bit more, so might as well just stay at home and pick my nose."
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Old 02-24-2008, 07:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


fincanceguy,

what cute little irish colloquialism for applying what looks to be some hefty tax increases to my tax status, would you like me to use?
Republican reductions in tax rates, in recent years, have only been achieved by massively increasing the size of the government debt (the size of the government hasn't declined. If anything, the opposite is the case).

You appear to have either missed, or to be unconcerned about that rather important point.

Republican politicians TELL the public that they will reduce the size of the government, but once elected, fail to do so - and that is because Republican politicians - with occasional exceptions such as Ron Paul, are hypocrites, liars, corrupt charlatans and war criminals.

At least Democrats are HONEST in admitting that THEIR big government proposals cost the taxpayer money.
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