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Old 12-13-2005, 04:51 AM   #46
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Thanks for the data, I think that when they trace back the SMS messages and start making arrests it will may clear a few things up. Mob mentality can be very useful and it can easily be harnessed by certain groups.
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Old 12-13-2005, 06:16 AM   #47
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this is ridiculous

my solution

send the lebanese people back to lebanon

because its obvious that they want to make australia lebanon

if you miss your home so much and want to make australia something that resembles your home, then why dont you go back there

im sure playing basketball with security guards holding ak47s outside is a much better country to live in than what australia has to offer
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Old 12-13-2005, 06:41 AM   #48
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I'm quite sure you dont truly believe all that shit, so I am not going to bite by pointing out all the errors in your er..reply - but it makes me wonder if you are actually aware that you dont have to be white, even, to be Australian? Novel, huh?!

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Old 12-13-2005, 07:19 AM   #49
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uhm, are you serious crashedcar driver? cause if you are, shame shame shame!!!

Obviously you can't see outside the little box you live in...
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:32 AM   #50
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someone once said "did anyone die of riot yet", then its okay.

i want him to say the same thing here.

someone once justified the riots by saying that government didnt proper care for them.

i want them them to justify these riots again.
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:28 PM   #51
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Originally posted by intedomine
It's disgraceful...but not all that surprising.

Although we hate to admit it, there has always been underlying racism and intolerance in Australian society. Whilst most of us are tolerant, there are many white supremicists in Australia and many people who hate the idea of integrating with anyone who does not identify with supposed Australian values and the way of life.

I'm a Sydney resident, I live on the Northen beaches and I'm not white, and I totally agree with this sentiment.
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:55 PM   #52
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YOUNG Sydney Muslims have posted messages on an Islamic web forum saying the city's Lebanese gangs need to be taught a lesson because they are giving Muslims a bad name.

Postings on the Muslim Village forum in the lead-up to Sunday's violent rally at Cronulla reveal a high level of frustration at the actions of some of the Lebanese gangs that have been accused of harassing beachgoers and bashing two lifeguards.

One message says: "It is about time drastic measures are taken to put an end to these idiots once and for all, because I, like other Muslims, am sick of being tarnished with all this crap … The Lebanese community has suffered immensely because of these misguided youth."

Another says: "These idiots need to be taught a lesson … Makes you wonder what type of parents they have."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/12/13/1134236064334.html
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:18 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrashedCarDriver
this is ridiculous

my solution

send the lebanese people back to lebanon

because its obvious that they want to make australia lebanon

if you miss your home so much and want to make australia something that resembles your home, then why dont you go back there

im sure playing basketball with security guards holding ak47s outside is a much better country to live in than what australia has to offer

I can actually see where you are coming from, but I don't agree the slightest.

And you seem to have forgotten the massive role played by the "white" Australians in the whole drama. They were the ones who instigated the remarkable events on the particular night that the riots kicked off.

The funny thing about these riots is that the most of the people in the Lebanese gangs are probably Australian born, yet cling strongly on to the homeland and values of their parents (or even grandparents) heritage.

Hence you can't kick them out. And to do so would be genocide, and would echo the extermination policies carried out in places such as WW2 Europe and Bosnia.

But there does indeed exist a willingness amongst some people of some ethnic minorities to model themselves (despite being Aussie-born), to selectively choose particular styles of fashion, accents and opinions.

They may despise rugby league and aussie rules footy, and only listen to hip hop or whatever is fashionable for their particular demographic at that time.

Many will deliberately attempt to divert as far away as possible from typical "Australian-ness" and dissociate with white or asian Australians.

It is indeed a power struggle in Sydney I reckon, and it is these deliberately chosen differences that has, in part, bred hate between people of different ethnic backgrounds.

But I prefer to view the riots in Sydney as motivated not necessarily by skin colour or ethnicity, but as a struggle between people who adopt oppositional ways of life. An intolerance of the way others' conduct themselves.

It exists. "Wog" culture, "Bogan" culture, an array of different "Asian" cultures.

They clash, but in the end, they are all Australian ways of life, and some people can't accept that their way of life is undermined or ignored by others.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:03 AM   #54
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Since we’re talking about identity and what culture immigrants should adopt, here’s my view:

I’m an Australian born Vietnamese and I never really had a big identity crises. It’s probably because I live and went to primary school at Springvale, a suburb where the inhabitants are pretty much 90% Asian (Melbournian’s might recognize that suburb!), but to answer the question of “who am I?” I just say that I’m an Australian born Vietnamese or Vietnamese Australian and just basically get it over and done with.

But on the other hand, I could definitely understand the issues surrounding identity and young people asking “who am I?” On one hand, you got a voice telling you to assimilate and adopt an “Australian way of life”, on the other you got another voice cursing you in abandoning your culture. People are just confused on which voice to reconcile. And especially since Australia is suffering under the looming threat of a terrorist attack instigated by frustrated youth fueled by an extremist brand of Islam, the pressure to assimilate is higher than ever.

For me personally, I just do what I like, where what clothes I like, listen to what music I like, talk how I like and eat what I like…and I honestly don’t care if my actions, clothes, music of choice or food is “Australian” or “Vietnamese”. So if there are people telling me I’m not assimilating enough or that I’m not “Vietnamese” enough…well…honestly….they could go fuck themselves .

I guess the whole crux of the identity issue is that people seem to desire a metaphorical label over there heads reading “ITALIAN”, “VIETNAMESE”, “LEBENESE” or “AUSTRALIAN”. When asked “who are you?”, they could just look at that metaphorical label and give a comfortable answer.

Just in case if you guys are wondering, I reckon my cultural activities are pretty balanced. Just a few weeks ago I was going bonkers over Australia’s win over Uruguay in the world cup qualifying match while I was consuming a meat pie, a can of VB and wearing a green and gold polo shirt, and the next day I put on my traditional Vietnamese outfit and headed strait for my cousins traditional Vietnamese wedding.

But in terms of the recent riots, those drunk Aussie bogans bashing up every middle eastern person in sight and those thuggish Lebanese gangs who harass women and beat up lifeguards all deserve a big smack in the head.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:05 AM   #55
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:38 AM   #56
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hey i am not white

hey i am white

hey i am this

hey i am that

while I am wanting that in 100-400 years time we will have a world with NO COUNTRIES, NO RELIGION, NO DIFFERENCES...

All humans - and peace...

ps: all the terrorists would have been killed by then
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:16 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
hey i am not white

hey i am white

hey i am this

hey i am that

while I am wanting that in 100-400 years time we will have a world with NO COUNTRIES, NO RELIGION, NO DIFFERENCES...

All humans - and peace...

Personally I wouldn't mind that at all, but an awfully lot of people are terrified of exactly that scenario. I'm not quite sure why, except to think that they are more interested in the difference between people than they are in the similarities.



(of course, if there are no differences in what everyone likes in music I sure hope my particular taste wins out..... ...not likely, but a girl can hope.... )
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:08 PM   #58
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Australia from a distance always looked like a pretty progressive place.

However, every non-white person (mostly Indian) I know who has been there, whether for vacation or business has said they've never encountered such open and obvious racism as in Australia. Not in the UK, not in Africa where the locals hated them, not in North America. I must say I was sort of surprised. In fact, a coworker of mine who has a PhD from England and her husband (an engineer) went over a few years ago and she said she was so horrified that she'd never go back. It was the only time in his life that he chose to not wear his turban because of the comments and looks he was getting there.

Considering her kind of experience has been corroborated by at least a half dozen other individuals kind of makes me wonder whether in fact it wasn't an isolated case.
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:18 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Australia from a distance always looked like a pretty progressive place.

However, every non-white person (mostly Indian) I know who has been there, whether for vacation or business has said they've never encountered such open and obvious racism as in Australia. Not in the UK, not in Africa where the locals hated them, not in North America. I must say I was sort of surprised. In fact, a coworker of mine who has a PhD from England and her husband (an engineer) went over a few years ago and she said she was so horrified that she'd never go back. It was the only time in his life that he chose to not wear his turban because of the comments and looks he was getting there.

Considering her kind of experience has been corroborated by at least a half dozen other individuals kind of makes me wonder whether in fact it wasn't an isolated case.


okay, i hate to add this to the mix, but i will just toss out there that i went on 2 dates with an australian. it pretty much ended because he was a racist. like, a straight-up, unapologetic racist. and i found this out after only 2 dates!

still, he was, like, a cancer researcher and lived in Baltimore so it wasn't like he was ignorant and uneducated. and his most racist thoughts were reserved for African-Americans.

that said, i still often wish i lived in Australia and the Australian interferencers are among the loveliest, smartest people in here and i know Australians who haven't a racist bone in their bodies, and i'd never let a single person speak for 30m people.

yet ... i was moved to say something. maybe i wish i hadn't, but i'll post it and see what happens.
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:39 PM   #60
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Well since Irvine raised the issue of rampant generalizations...

Here in the US at least, we do have somewhat of a stereotype of Australian culture as being pervaded by a sort of rhetorical machismo, where "telling it like it is" is valorized to the point that expressing more nuanced views might cause you to be seen as a bit of a puff...perhaps with adverse consequences for the collective ability to acknowledge the dangers of shrugging off inflammatory rhetoric...?

This may very well be BS, but I would be curious to hear what our Australian posters have to say about this. Regrettably, I am too woefully uninformed about Australian culture myself to have the slightest idea.
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