Survey--July 22, 2005: Many won't evacuate

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echo0001

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I don't know if this has been posted and I don't know what to think about this at all. I heard about this on the coverage the other day and went surfing for it and managed to find it.

I don't know what to think, excpet that maybe next time people will take a mandatory evacuation more seriously.



Survey: Many Won't Evacuate For A Category 3 Storm




July 22, 2005
Courtesy of The Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- As many as 60 percent of the respondents to a poll of southeast Louisiana residents said they would stay in their homes if a Category 3 hurricane was approaching - a dangerous decision, according to emergency officials.

University of New Orleans political science professor Susan Howell, who directed the survey, said that although 60 percent of those asked at first said they would leave if public officials recommended an evacuation, on further questioning, only 34 percent of the residents of 12 coastal parishes would "definitely" leave.

She said the public doesn't realize that areas of southeast Louisiana are no longer protected by levees from a slow-moving Category 3 hurricane.

"It's been 40 years since the last catastrophic hurricane hit the city, Betsy, so we're asking them to believe the risk when they've never experienced anything like it."

The survey was released Thursday by the UNO Survey and Research Center and the Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Task Force.

In response, Jesse St. Amant, emergency preparedness director for Plaquemines Parish, said that the state's sinking coastline and levees no longer protect residents from a Category 3 storm, which can deliver winds of 130 mph and an 18-foot-high combination of storm surge and waves. He said last year's Hurricane Ivan, had it hit directly hit southeastern Louisiana, would have done great damage.

"The reality is that regardless of whether you lived through Betsy or remember Camille, though it hit somewhere else, if Ivan had happened here, we would probably not be standing here talking about it in this building," St. Amant said. "We would still be recovering."

In 2002, an official from the American Red Cross estimated that between 25,000 and 100,000 people would be killed if a major hurricane hit the New Orleans area.

If the new survey is accurate and significant numbers of people don't evacuate, St. Amant said, the number of casualties would be "beyond comprehension."

Howell said residents based their evacuation decisions on their perception of the risk they face in their location. And the two factors that weigh most heavily in that perception are past experiences with hurricanes and whether they feel their home is sturdily built.

And residents who lived more than 30 years in southeast Louisiana were least likely to evacuate, especially if their own home had never been damaged by a hurricane.

The survey also found that many people who evacuated during Hurricanes Georges in 1998, Lili in 2002 or Ivan last year might not have traveled far enough to escape danger.

At least 400 residents were interviewed in each of the 12 participating parishes. Not all results could be combined because of differences in evacuation problems or how far their populated areas are from the coast. The study began in the spring of 2004, and several parishes or parts of parishes weren't completed until after Ivan hit in September.

The problems experienced by evacuees during Ivan, including delays of 10 hours or more in reaching their evacuation destinations, don't seem to affect the willingness to evacuate, Howell said. An average of 86 percent of Ivan evacuees in four parishes said they would do the same thing under similar circumstances, about the same as those who evacuated for Georges and Lili.

The hurricane season begins June 1 and runs through Nov. 30.

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/newsrelated/Manywon'tevacuate.htm
 
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I don't think they did.

Otherwise, why were there still hotels full of tourists (with their rental cars) in the aftermath.

Not to mention hospitals full of patients that weren't evacuated beforehand (who were the responsibility of the doctors and administrators, not to mention that hospitals should have been on a priority evac list.)

And etc., etc.
 
I know a lot of the people who stayed are people that were too sick to move to begin with, I don't think it's so easy or realistic for hospitals to evacuate within such a short period of time. I just think the majority of those left are poorer people who didn't necessarily have a means of leaving the city.
 
echo0001 said:

Otherwise, why were there still hotels full of tourists (with their rental cars) in the aftermath.


It looked like there was a big problem with traffic jams on the interstate (I heard one reporter say she had only moved about a mile in 2 hours). Or they couldn't get flights out. Some people gave up and went back to their hotels :shrug:.
 
VertigoGal said:
I get the feeling that with this storm nearly everyone who could evacuate, did.

I don't think so. I think alot of people decided to stay, echo's survey kinda shows a mentality: "we'll ride it out."
 
:|

Not to be harsh... but you'd think that if people made that decision, they'd be up for the consequences. Yes, some people couldn't get out. But for those that could, well, you make the bed you sleep in.

Certainly, this is somewhat unprecedented.
But still...
You can't think you are invincible

:|
 
For Honor said:
:|

Not to be harsh... but you'd think that if people made that decision, they'd be up for the consequences. Yes, some people couldn't get out. But for those that could, well, you make the bed you sleep in.

Certainly, this is somewhat unprecedented.
But still...
You can't think you are invincible

:|

They deserve whatever they got through Tuesday nite. Help should have been pouring in by Wednesday and prevented some of the real horrible stuff we've been hearing about.
 
VertigoGal said:
I get the feeling that with this storm nearly everyone who could evacuate, did.

I don't think so; I think WAY too many people stuck around for whatever reasons. However, I won't be part of the "well, those that stayed got what they deserved" mentality b/c NOBODY was prepared for this mess. But, I still wonder WHY people would still refuse to leave during a mandatory evacuation. I remember right after it hit and the flooding didn't seem all that bad yet, there were people on TV saying they'd decided to stay so they could help with cleanup right away. I commend them for their reasoning and willingness to help, but still, WHY is it worth it to risk your lives and your children's lives thinking you can ride it out? I'm not talking about the poorest and the sick elderly who really had no means of leaving, but for the people that DID have cars, DID have money, DID have connections, and not just for this storm in NO, for ANY hurricane anywhere......why?....I just don't understand it.
 
MrBrau1 said:


I don't think so. I think alot of people decided to stay, echo's survey kinda shows a mentality: "we'll ride it out."

Yes. People tend to forget, over time, how vicious mother nature can be. If it hasn't happened lately, it probably won't happen. Or, it won't be that bad.

Several years ago, I saw a documentary that covered New Orleans and the potentials for catastrophe in the case of flooding.

That show convinced me that New Orleans was an incredibily ill-prepared city. They mentioned the lack of land evacuation routes, as well.

But failing to evacuate hospitals is a glaring illustration of the city leaders total un-preparedness. They weren't worried enough to take the proposition seriously; they took a gamble that they could get away without a real plan to save their own people. That's damn nearly a crime.
 
There was a guy on the radio here talking about a relative he has stranded there and apparently there are multiple Canadians in that hotel. He says that they were booked to leave early Sunday morning but the airlines cancelled flights 24 hours before the hurricane hit. It was too late for them to get a rental car at that time.

Now Canadian Foreign Affairs is advising them that they should not leave their hotel under any circumstances for fear of not making it out on the street.
 
Yes, I feel the brunt of the responsibility lies on the leadership...


Defying manditory evac is one thing.....

But since this is such a national affair, the national government should take respontibility for it. He who takes the blame for the problems of the nation is the true leader


So who is willing to take responsibility for this, I wonder?
 
Don't let the few die-hards distract from those who couldn't leave. And don't forget those who left, are now stranded, and have absolutely nothing to their names. That last group amonts to over one million.
 
jay canseco said:
Don't let the few die-hards distract from those who couldn't leave. And don't forget those who left, are now stranded, and have absolutely nothing to their names. That last group amonts to over one million.

Dateline just had a story about people who are walking on the interstate because they can't get in contact with relatives out of state for help.

One was a nurse who had stayed to work at one of the hospitals. And now she was walking along the highway on a bloody foot. Somehow the Dateline crew came across an ambulance who could help them.
 
Kudos to Dateline.

And come to think of it, to all the reporters and media people who are down there. I know they've been helping out as they able and when they can.
 
kellyahern said:


A lot of people at the Superdome have been saying that. They don't have cars and either walk or rely on public transportation.

What I do not understand is why, before the hurricane hit, huge passenger trains weren't sent to New Orleans to take out hundreds - if not thousands - of the city's poor, tourists, and others without a form of transportation.

Put together a train of twenty sleeper carriages and that's temporary accommodation for a STACK of people. Heck, considering how comfortable some modern sitting cars are, they could've even used those and people could sprawl out on the seats. Make a good number of these trains with all the carriages available, park them in a rail yard out of harm's way in another state, and make sure a few restaurant wagons are included in each train.

There you have it: temporary shelter, safety, security, food, sanitation, and comfort, rather than this Superdome joke. I know America's sorely lacking on the passenger train front compared to much of the world, but I'm SURE Amtrak could've spared a good number of wagons, along with engines to pull the trains to the safety of the aforementioned yard. There are also heaps of rail preservation societies with fleets of wagons - I visited one in Nashville in June. A couple of trains could've been sent down from that society to ferry out the stranded before the hurricane even arrived. Why weren't they?! Where the hell is the organisation?
 
Axver said:


What I do not understand is why, before the hurricane hit, huge passenger trains weren't sent to New Orleans to take out hundreds - if not thousands - of the city's poor, tourists, and others without a form of transportation.

Why weren't they?! Where the hell is the organisation?

We're all wondering the same thing. Apparently, New Orleans has a large percent of the population that does not have private transportation. What was the plan to get these people out? I heard that there were buses that were going to go around and pick up people before the storm, but I never heard any reports that this was actually done. I just heard that these people were told to go to the Superdome.
 
If people were able to evacuate and decided not to, I will say that I think that was a stupid move on their part-better safe than sorry. I would've evacuated, personally.

At the same time, though, I don't agree with the idea that they deserved this for staying behind. They made a stupid choice, but they still didn't deserve this.

Angela
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
If people were able to evacuate and decided not to, I will say that I think that was a stupid move on their part-better safe than sorry. I would've evacuated, personally.

At the same time, though, I don't agree with the idea that they deserved this for staying behind. They made a stupid choice, but they still didn't deserve this.

Angela

Yeah, they didn't deserve it.

What surprised me about the survey was that so many people said they wouldn't comply with a mandatory evac...:tsk:
 
Also remember the difficulty in predicting hurricanes. Had the storm veered in either direction or weakened significantly (all have happened in storms this year and recent years) the evacuation that was in place would have been denounced as a gigantic waste of money and resources. Every shoulda is an enormous multi billion dollar logistics nightmare. All that said, it's the Feds response that is unforgivable.
 
thanks, echo0001, for raising points that everyone needs to consider.

You can't paint this picture in just blacks and whites.

There has to be some degree of personal responsibility to the decisions we make in life.

I haven't had a car in seven years, but if a category four-five hurricane was coming directly at me, I would have pawned my TV/DVD player or something, got me some money and hightailed it out of the area on a Greyhound - or rented a car!

There WAS a way for a lot of folks to have prevented their demise.

To me, this lack of foresight on behalf of a lot of folks in N.O. says much more about our American sense of stubbornness and unwillingness to accept that we ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THE DANGERS OF LIFE.

We always think it won't happen to us because we live in the USA.

9/11 didn't teach us anything - neither will Katrina.

The opinions of a poor person who will still be poor after all the folks from N.O. are in new homes and new jobs.

Who is here to help the rest of us po' folks in the USA?

:ohmy:
 
YOU are here to help yourself!

This is America...land of opportunity. Take advantage of it and stop feeling sorry for yourself (you speak of having DVD/TV, and then call yourself poor..). :tsk:

Yes, Americans are stubborn....and people SHOULD have fleed the area. BUT, did the citizens of NO expect the levees to break? NO.
 
Let's say the same for the folks in N.O. who didn't use their better judgment, also.

I'm simply saying that these folks weren't the victims of some bomb that dropped from the skies - a lot of them were too stubborn to "help themselves" and get out of a dangerous situation.

Now, because they didn't use their better judgment, they will get tons of help while those of us who do try to help ourselves don't get any.

Already in my city (Austin TX), companies are preferring victims of Katrina to come and get jobs with them so that these companies can get federal disaster monies for helping!

Does THAT seem fair to us who are TX state residents who also need these jobs?

Before you criticize, you need to have all the facts. :ohmy:
 
Please cite those companies who are going to hire Katrina victims in Austin because they are going to get federal money...PLEASE cite them.

Austin is one of America's fastest growing cities and is a tech center...filled with educational opportunities...again...like YOU say, people need to take personal responsibility...and I think you should do that before you preach it!
 
Jamila said:


I haven't had a car in seven years, but if a category four-five hurricane was coming directly at me, I would have pawned my TV/DVD player or something, got me some money and hightailed it out of the area on a Greyhound - or rented a car!

There WAS a way for a lot of folks to have prevented their demise.

Oh yes, it's so easy to declare what you'd have done when really, none of us really have any idea what we'd have done because we don't know what our personal circumstances in those decision-making moments would have been. Do you really think you're the only person who'd have had the idea to take a bus or rent a car? There are a limited number of buses and rental cars in a given city and you still might not have been able to get out.


Jamila said:

Now, because they didn't use their better judgment, they will get tons of help while those of us who do try to help ourselves don't get any.
...

Before you criticize, you need to have all the facts.

Again, as if you know everyone's story? Perhaps you should wait for the facts, too.
 
joyfulgirl said:
Do you really think you're the only person who'd have had the idea to take a bus or rent a car? There are a limited number of buses and rental cars in a given city and you still might not have been able to get out.

That, indeed, was the case. Rental cars ran out quickly, and those who had bought tickets for Greyhound buses suddenly found themselves stuck when they started cancelling bus trips closer to the hurricane. And these were "rich" tourists we're talking about here, so if they couldn't get out, I'm pretty sure the poor would have fared much worse.

Melon
 
Jamila said:
Let's say the same for the folks in N.O. who didn't use their better judgment, also.

I'm simply saying that these folks weren't the victims of some bomb that dropped from the skies - a lot of them were too stubborn to "help themselves" and get out of a dangerous situation.

Now, because they didn't use their better judgment, they will get tons of help while those of us who do try to help ourselves don't get any.

Already in my city (Austin TX), companies are preferring victims of Katrina to come and get jobs with them so that these companies can get federal disaster monies for helping!

Does THAT seem fair to us who are TX state residents who also need these jobs?

Before you criticize, you need to have all the facts. :ohmy:

Whoa! You really are on a tear today, aren't you? :eyebrow: (I just read the "Holy Kanye! ... " thread too)

Logically one would think that people who are poor would have more compassion and understanding of the plight of other, even more desperately poor people, but as you just so beautifully illustrated it often doesn't work that way.

And as I'm sure you will know if you have read any of the other responses to your posts here and in the Kanye threads, many other people (including me) on this board are or have been in financially shakey, and even downright dire, situations. Don't ever think you are the only one who knows what being poor is like.

Compared to a lot of people in the areas hit by Katrina, you, jamilla, are rich. So take a big dose of Midol and get over yourself.
 
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