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Old 07-02-2005, 01:28 PM   #91
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


But where did the common sense that murder is wrong start? Murder, as in sacrifice of babies and virgins, wasn't wrong to many an ancient civilization. Why?
You honestly think when "Cain" committed the first murder, that people just sat back and said, well that's OK until we have something telling us otherwise? Come on...

As far as sacrifices. People still justify murder in capital punishment and war, you will always find those that justify murder.



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Our forefathers knew that absolutes didn't exist? I don't know what would lead you to that conclusion.
The constitution would have been much more rigid if they had, religious freedom would not have been such a major factor that's for sure.
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Old 07-02-2005, 02:54 PM   #92
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

You honestly think when "Cain" committed the first murder, that people just sat back and said, well that's OK until we have something telling us otherwise? Come on...

That's exactly my point, BVS. The moral of "thou shalt not kill" came from God. The Bible says that when Adam and Eve ate the apple, they suddenly grew aware of sin. That realization came from God.

And if you want to get right down to it, in the book of Romans, Paul said that the law (right vs. wrong) is written on everyone's hearts, whether they know about God or not.
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Old 07-02-2005, 03:00 PM   #93
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And if you want to get right down to it, in the book of Romans, Paul said that the law (right vs. wrong) is written on everyone's hearts, whether they know about God or not.
And this is exactly my point. It has nothing to do with religion, it has nothing to do with the 10 commandments it's common moral humanity that we all have.
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Old 07-02-2005, 04:19 PM   #94
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And this is exactly my point. It has nothing to do with religion, it has nothing to do with the 10 commandments it's common moral humanity that we all have.
My point all along was that the "universal laws", the "common moral humanity" that you are talking about has its basis in God. You even referenced that yourself, talking about Cain and Abel. Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel were the only people at that time. They got their knowledge of sin from God.
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Old 07-02-2005, 04:52 PM   #95
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Well then we agree somewhat, but I think we'll continue to disagree with the peripheral.
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Old 07-02-2005, 07:08 PM   #96
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel were the only people at that time. They got their knowledge of sin from God.
Except they're legend, not fact.

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Old 07-03-2005, 07:56 PM   #97
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Published on Saturday, July 2, 2005 by the Associated Press

NOW Declares 'state of Emergency,' Plans March After News of O'Connor's Retirement
by Rose French


NASHVILLE, Tenn. - The president of the National Organization for Women declared a "state of emergency" for women's rights and planned a march on the state Capitol as news of Sandra Day O'Connor's retirement reverberated through the group's annual convention.

NOW president Kim Gandy told about 800 NOW members Friday that women need to send a message that they won't tolerate "extremist" judges who set back women's rights.

"This is our time. This is our challenge," Gandy said as the crowd replied by clapping and chanting, "Hell no, we won't go" and "We won't go back."

The group shifted the agenda for their three-day convention to include a march to the Tennessee Capitol on Saturday to "make sure Senator Frist and all senators are going to hear our voices. We're going to march on every Capitol in this country," Gandy said.

The first woman on the Supreme Court, O'Connor was often the swing vote on 5-4 decisions supporting abortion, affirmative action and other contentious social issues. Her retirement leaves Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg as the only woman on the court.

Gandy and former NOW president Eleanor Smeal, now president of the Feminist Majority Foundation, praised O'Connor as a moderate.

"Twenty-four years ago, as president of the National Organization for Women, I testified for Sandra Day O'Connor before the Senate Judiciary Committee," Smeal said. "I knew then that O'Connor, although a conservative voice, would be one who would not permit the elimination of women's fundamental rights, including the right to privacy."

Gandy said the group fears "a nominee along the lines of some of the extremist judges that have been put on the appellate court by George Bush."

NOW members are set to elect their president Saturday night. Gandy, elected in 2001, is being challenged by Rosemary J. Dempsey, a Connecticut lawyer who's held several national and state leadership roles since joining NOW in 1970.

Dempsey wants to focus on attracting younger members and opposing President Bush's economic agenda, which she says inflicts disproportionate harm on women.

"We were effective in the 70s, and we're effective now," Dempsey said. "But there has been a backlash. Most young women don't know about NOW these days. If NOW is visible and relevant where they (young members) live, that's what makes NOW powerful."

On the Net:
NOW: http://www.now.org
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Old 07-05-2005, 06:01 AM   #98
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Published on Saturday, July 2, 2005 by the Associated Press

NOW Declares 'state of Emergency,' Plans March After News of O'Connor's Retirement
by Rose French


NASHVILLE, Tenn. - The president of the National Organization for Women declared a "state of emergency" for women's rights and planned a march on the state Capitol as news of Sandra Day O'Connor's retirement reverberated through the group's annual convention.

On the Net:
NOW: http://www.now.org

Doesn't this organization have some golf course to go protest at?
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Old 07-05-2005, 06:11 AM   #99
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Wow, you're so witty and incisive!

In response to joyfulgirl's post:

It would be nice to see NOW become a more relevant organization again. I think a lot of women my own age (say, early 20s) or younger don't even know what NOW does or why NOW was (and could be again) so influential.

The mistake I think that women's groups like NOW have made, again and again, is getting wrapped up in political issues that don't necessarily touch the "woman on the street." They don't focus enough on economic injustice or inequities in health and education, because those problems do, I think, continue to disproportionately affect women (and young women at that).

If they don't alter both their message and their approach, we're going to keep hearing boneheaded comments about golf courses.
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:28 AM   #100
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Too bad that abortion will once again be used as a tool to exercise political power.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:49 AM   #101
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If Bush doesn't nominate a pro-lifer, he has betrayed the majority of his contituency, the people who put him in office.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:53 AM   #102
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i can't understand why abortion is such a hysteria-inducing issue, on both sides, in the United States, but pretty much nowhere else in the developed world.

what do they know that we don't?
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:57 AM   #103
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i can't understand why abortion is such a hysteria-inducing issue, on both sides, in the United States, but pretty much nowhere else in the developed world.

what do they know that we don't?
I don't think it's an issue of "something we don't know".

There are pro-lifers all over the world, and there are indeed other countries in which abortion is illegal.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:00 AM   #104
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I don't think it's an issue of "something we don't know".

There are pro-lifers all over the world, and there are indeed other countries in which abortion is illegal.


yes, but it does not occupy the same amount of political emotion anywhere else.

why is this so emotional for Americans?
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:17 AM   #105
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yes, but it does not occupy the same amount of political emotion anywhere else.

why is this so emotional for Americans?
The issue is manipulated by both sides for political gains. Phrases like "killing children" and "control of bodies" are used to maintain the emotional aspects of the issue.

And we keep buying into it.

Over the next 6 months, phrases like "a return to the dark ages" and "back street abortions" will be used regularly. Groups don't seek to resolve the issue, they want to keep it in contention so that they can continue to have influence.
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