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Old 07-05-2005, 03:53 PM   #136
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Originally posted by MissMoo
80's it may seem that way in your circle but everyone I know believes it should be legal. I can also point to people who have chosen not to abort but would still not make it illegal.
Irvine and I were specifically talking about Republicans who call themselves prolifers. Are your friends prolife Republicans?

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Originally posted by MissMoo
Another thing you might consider, there are statistics in the book Freakonomics stating that abortion rates do not change according to abortion being illegal or not. Apparently they change according to (as previously stated) the parents being able to support them.
So, there were as many abortions annually before Roe V. Wade as there are after Roe V. Wade? I doubt that highly, and would take any statistic that stated as such with a grain of salt. People who otherwise might do something within the law often won't, for fear of being prosecuted. Is the author of Freakonomics trying to tell us that the fear of prosecution wouldn't cause any women to choose adoption instead of abortion?
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Old 07-05-2005, 03:53 PM   #137
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Polls show a majority disapprove of abortion and a majority approve of keeping it legal. But the numbers on either point are not so overwhelming that the issue is beyond dispute.
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Old 07-05-2005, 04:03 PM   #138
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

So, there were as many abortions annually before Roe V. Wade as there are after Roe V. Wade? I doubt that highly, and would take any statistic that stated as such with a grain of salt. People who otherwise might do something within the law often won't, for fear of being prosecuted. Is the author of Freakonomics trying to tell us that the fear of prosecution wouldn't cause any women to choose adoption instead of abortion?


i think any woman who really wants an abortion is going to find a way to have an abortion. much of the pro-choice movement is centered around the health of the woman, so that she's not butchered by a "doctor" in the much talked about phenomenon of back-alley abortions.

legality is beside the point when a woman believes she cannot have a baby.
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Old 07-05-2005, 04:35 PM   #139
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i think any woman who really wants an abortion is going to find a way to have an abortion. much of the pro-choice movement is centered around the health of the woman, so that she's not butchered by a "doctor" in the much talked about phenomenon of back-alley abortions.
If the abortion rate before Roe v. Wade was as high as it is today, then either the so called "back-alley" abortions were relatively safe or there was a fatality rate among women that dropped considerably.
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Old 07-05-2005, 04:49 PM   #140
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If the abortion rate before Roe v. Wade was as high as it is today, then either the so called "back-alley" abortions were relatively safe or there was a fatality rate among women that dropped considerably.
So just because they didn't die, even though it may create permanant damage, means they're "safe"???
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Old 07-05-2005, 05:11 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Polls show a majority disapprove of abortion and a majority approve of keeping it legal. But the numbers on either point are not so overwhelming that the issue is beyond dispute.
a. divorce

b. adultery

c. gluttony

d. tongue piercing

e. flag burning

f. Klan march

e. boy bands




Common sense says when a majority disapproves of something
And approves of keeping it legal

They are right
It should be legal
Disapproval and all.

This should be beyond dispute for rational people.
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Old 07-05-2005, 05:55 PM   #142
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Originally posted by Sparkysgrrrl
Clinton is elected by the Pro-Choice, and he passes more laws restricting abortions than any other president.
I'd like to see your source for that stat.

Clinton reversed Bush Sr.'s executive order ban of abortions on military bases. Dubya has since reversed the reversal.

Clinton refused to sign the ban on partial birth abortion. Bush signed it first chance he had.
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Old 07-06-2005, 12:13 AM   #143
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I just realized I worded my post all wrong...
More laws restricting abortion were passed while Bubba was in office, all that parental notification state by state bullshit.
(It was too early to post in here, and now it's too late.
Sparkys needs sleep. *hides)
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Old 07-06-2005, 07:08 AM   #144
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President Bush, during his stop in Denmark before heading to the G-8 summit, said Wednesday he will not select a Supreme Court nominee based on his or her views on abortion or other hot-button political issues.

He urged senators to act "in a dignified way" in what is expected to be a contentious battle over confirming his first nominee to the nation's highest court....

....Bush made his fourth trip to Europe this year just days after Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor announced her retirement. The president said that as he reviews candidates to replace her, "I'll try to assess their character, their interests."

Bush said he would have no "litmus test" that disqualifies candidates because of their opinions on abortion and gay marriage.

"I'll pick people who, one, can do the job, and people who are honest, people who are bright and people who will strictly interpret the Constitution and not use the bench to legislate from," Bush said.

Bush spent a few hours reviewing material on more than a half dozen potential replacements for O'Connor on his flight to Denmark. He has said that he will spend a few weeks narrowing a list of candidates and then interviewing some, and his goal is to see a new justice in place by the time the court begins its new term in October.

"I will take my time," Bush said. "I will be thorough in my investigation."

Bush bristled at criticism of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, a longtime friend who is often mentioned as a potential nominee for the high court. Conservatives said they aren't convinced Gonzales' beliefs on affirmative action and abortion are far enough to the right for their liking.

"I don't like it when a friend gets criticized," Bush said. "I'm loyal to my friends.

"And all the sudden this fella, who is a good public servant and a really fine person, is under fire," Bush said. "And so do I like it? No, I don't like it. At all."
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:22 AM   #145
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So it's not the prochoicers who actually have anything to fear form Bush. It's the pro-lifers who stood by him and voted him into office that will receive the knife in the back.
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:39 AM   #146
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
So it's not the prochoicers who actually have anything to fear form Bush. It's the pro-lifers who stood by him and voted him into office that will receive the knife in the back.

i'm hardly surprised.

here's my solution: stop voting Republican!

they're never going to give you what you really want, but they'll slash your services and safety nets and make universal health care (something that might actually drastically reduce the need for abortions) forever a fantasy.
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:42 AM   #147
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
It's the pro-lifers who stood by him and voted him into office that will receive the knife in the back.
Personally I don't believe Bush when he says he has no lithmus test, but if he proves me wrong then at least he's putting his personal opinions aside and is doing what's best for the country. I don't think anyone is getting stabbed in the back.
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:50 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Common sense says when a majority disapproves of something
And approves of keeping it legal

They are right
It should be legal
Disapproval and all.

This should be beyond dispute for rational people.
Or that the masses are willing to abdicate on tough moral decisions.
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:53 AM   #149
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Or that the masses are willing to abdicate on tough moral decisions.

yes, abdicate and leave the choices up to the individual.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:05 AM   #150
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Sorry 80's I missed the part about it being Republican Christians you were debating and since I know zero Christians and only two Republicans (both atheists and pro choice) my statement does not qualify.
About the statistic I quoted, unfortunately I was remembering what I read and have since given the book to a friend, so I'll have to get back to you on that.
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