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Old 06-28-2005, 01:56 PM   #16
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So why are you making such an issue of this? Is it a true fear of establishment of religion or a exercise of political power?
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Old 06-28-2005, 02:21 PM   #17
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So why are you making such an issue of this? Is it a true fear of establishment of religion or a exercise of political power?
It's just the right thing to do. Why keep them, if they don't speak for everyone?

Why have a government building that doesn't encompass all of it's citizens? Makes no sense to me.
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Old 06-28-2005, 02:41 PM   #18
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If a building doesn't incorporate feng shui, is it not encompassing all of the population?

It's a small monument in front of a building. If your standard is that a monument should speak for everyone, we would have no monuments, no art, nothing. It is ridiculous.
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Old 06-28-2005, 03:11 PM   #19
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If a building doesn't incorporate feng shui, is it not encompassing all of the population?
No because that would be a spiritual belief, that's not believed by everyone.

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It's a small monument in front of a building. If your standard is that a monument should speak for everyone, we would have no monuments, no art, nothing. It is ridiculous.
The bill or rights speaks for the citizens of this nation, it's our foundation. Seems like it has more business being in front of a government building rather than a religious monument.
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Old 06-28-2005, 05:07 PM   #20
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
what will it take to be "neutral"?
The Lemon test?
(1) have secular purpose
(2) neither advance nor inhibit religion
(3) no excessive government entanglement with religion

I fail to see the secular purpose of the display.
Also, in Stone v. Graham the Burger court found a Kentucky law requiring a posted copy of the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms violated the first prong of the Lemon test and therefore violated the Establishment Clause.

"The Commandments do not confine themselves to arguably secular matters, such as honoring one's parents, killing or murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, and covetousness. [...] Rather, the first part of the Commandments concerns the religious duties of believers: worshipping the Lord God alone, avoiding idolatry, not using the Lord's name in vain, and observing the Sabbath Day." (from Stone)


Seems like precedent makes this a pretty easy decision.
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Old 06-29-2005, 06:11 AM   #21
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No because that would be a spiritual belief, that's not believed by everyone.
But by not incorporating feng shui, you are excluding those who follow it.



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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
The bill or rights speaks for the citizens of this nation, it's our foundation. Seems like it has more business being in front of a government building rather than a religious monument.
And yet, we are no where near Establishing a government run religion (a la The Church of England), despite all our "theocracy watches".
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Old 06-29-2005, 06:41 AM   #22
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The hoot of the issue is the tablets in Texas were originally put there as an advertisement for the movie.
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Old 06-29-2005, 06:48 AM   #23
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And yet, we are no where near Establishing a government run religion (a la The Church of England), despite all our "theocracy watches".
A bit unfair Church of England is for all intensive purposes secular today (sarc) and when it was created the concept of seperation of church and state was non-existent, the real modern European religion is in intrusive government (random example is the mandatory housework clause being put in Spanish marriage certificates). Who wants bloody priests going around telling people how to live their lives when it can all be centralised and issued by petty beurocrats.
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Old 06-29-2005, 07:54 AM   #24
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But by not incorporating feng shui, you are excluding those who follow it.
How does it exclude them? People who believe in feng shui are allowed to walk in feng shui buildings, really its usually only their homes and if they own a business where feng shui even takes effect. Even then most wouldn't even notice it for there are no symbols. I designed 3 restaurants for someone who believed in feng shui.

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And yet, we are no where near Establishing a government run religion (a la The Church of England), despite all our "theocracy watches".
That wasn't the question you asked, you asked what if any monuments would be "neutral" enough.

No one has even come close to answering me why we need the 10 commandments in a government building. And for those that have erroneously claimed it was because it was the foundation of our law making, only 2 commandments, if you stretch 2 1/2 commandments are law, and they're pretty much common sense.
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