Superiority complexes and internet forums in general

[yolland]

You can agree to disagree, and still have a good friend or a loved one. It's hard to keep this perspective when all we have here is words on a 2-dimensional screen and usually don't know other posters personally.

I've said some dumb things here, and I've read some dumb things. Such is life, human nature. I have changed my views on a few things stemming from discussion here, so I have felt and at the moment continue to feel that this forum is of value to me.

Even with all the disagreement, I can't think of any FYM poster I wouldn't be pleased to met in person.

ditto.

 

[Irvine511]

I think Newbies are welcome in this forum.....

It's conservatives who are the dying breed... Or anyone who does not fit the liberal MO...

or conservatives who can't take the heat?

it's much, much tougher to be a conservative in 2007 than it was in 2004/5.

i mean that as a serious comment, at least within the context of American politics.

 

[CTU2fan]

Honestly most of the cases I've seen of n00bs being attacked in a forum (here or other) fall into one of 2 categories:

1. The n00b's first post is incredibly over-the-top antagonistic and appears borderline trollish, often because the person didn't post until they found something that struck a nerve.

2. The person doing the attacking is known for that type of behavior, to regulars as well as new posters.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I think it's easier to be rude and dismissive to others opinions if you can't see their face and if you don't know anything about them.

A good sense of humor can go a long way as well but it can also land you in hot water. Not everyone finds the same thing funny and what one person may think is hilarious, another find horrifying...

That is the worst thing about this type of communication I find, it is very difficult to understand what the tone of the message is.

If I said:

I hate you!

I'm sure most would find this insulting, but if I simply do this:

I hate you!

All of a sudden it's better because I'm joking...or am I?

Probably 70% of the arguments on this board would not happen if people could understand the tone of what is being said. And of course if you are going to discuss something with a stranger, generally Religion or Politics are not the best topics to start off with...

Phew, that was a long one and for the record, ad me to the honorary newbie list as well...

 

[MrPryck2U]

I've got no problem with newbies. They might be new to this site, but might be longtime U2 fans.
I think my largest pet peeve is when a person types IMO or IMHO. Of course it's your opinion! That's kind of a given! So, if you find yourself typing those letters, stop yourself. Be a leader. Not a follower.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I've got no problem with newbies. They might be new to this site, but might be longtime U2 fans.
I think my largest pet peeve is when a person types IMO or IMHO. Of course it's your opinion! That's kind of a given! So, if you find yourself typing those letters, stop yourself. Be a leader. Not a follower.

Well, IMO I think it's a good thing that people do this, although you are right - it is kind of funny when you think about it, of course it's your opinion! But I don't think these forums need to be a yelling and screaming match, when you put something like IMO or IMHO it reminds people that yes, this is ONLY your opinion and it gives them pause (hopefully) before replying.

 

[MrPryck2U]

I went into this pizza place the other day and this customer in front of me said he was there to pick up a pizza pie. The guy behind the counter smirked and said "so you want a pie pie?". (You see, in Italian, pizza means pie.) The customer looked at him puzzled. The counterperson requested that the customer please not be redundant and informed the customer that his pie pie would be ready in 15 minutes.
So, when someone types IMO or IMHO it's as redundant as ordering a pizza pie. Of course it's your opinion and of course you're ordering a pizza/pie.

 

[ntalwar]

Disclaimer / arsesaver: This is not aimed at any specific person, and I'm not just talking about here, but in most internet forums I've seen. I just want to find out what anti-newbie nonsense is about, because I cannot comprehend it.

I also read and post on a couple of other forums. There (as well as in EYKIW) the newbies are flamed for asking FAQ openly without first reading the FAQ. "RTFF" or Read The Fucking FAQ (or Forum) is a common retort on some other forums.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I find it sad that when someone asks the question:

"What is the name of the song that plays before every Vertigo show?"

Everyone does this and has a sarcastic comment...

I know there are some people who are exceptions, but is it that hard to politely answer the question?

"Wake Up" by Arcade Fire from their "Funeral" album. There, it probably took as long to write this as it would to write something sarcastic and rude...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Whenever FYM gets me down, I remind myself that my religious and political views are also night and day as those of my parents and my in-laws. You can agree to disagree, and still have a good friend or a loved one. It's hard to keep this perspective when all we have here is words on a 2-dimensional screen and usually don't know other posters personally. I just keep reminding myself of my mom and I, how opposite we are, but how well we get along, political debate aside.

I've said some dumb things here, and I've read some dumb things. Such is life, human nature. I have changed my views on a few things stemming from discussion here, so I have felt and at the moment continue to feel that this forum is of value to me.

Even with all the disagreement, I can't think of any FYM poster I wouldn't be pleased to met in person.

bingo.

 

[Irvine511]

i'm as guilty as taking this forum too seriously as anyone else -- it's not often that i encounter people either from such different backgrounds on a regular basis and then have the perogative to engage them in debate and discussion -- but i also think it's due to the fact that, yes, we're all 2 dimensional, but we also get access to articulated thoughts and feelings and possibly a level of honesty in a mostlyl anonymous forum such as this that you'd never get in real life where you'd pretty much have to be nice to someone. while politeness is a good rule of thumb for life, it's not necessarily a good rule of thumb when you're seeking honesty and openness and rigorous thinking. i would often get into ... not trouble, exactly ... but a bit of hot water when traveling and wanting to engage the multitude of international expats around the table in political and religious and social discussions after a few pints, but having to retain a level of courtesy that can be stifling to genuine discussion. here, due to the anonymity, there's none of that pretense, which is both a strong point and a negative point. ultimately, you can't expect the same rules to apply here that you would expect to apply in a face-to-face interaction and i always find it interesting when people seem to have their feelings hurt. the importance i give this forum has nothing to do with me as a person, but everything to do with ideas. it's my ideas that are on trial, not my personality or who i am as a human being. ideas are contested, never people. usually.

it amazes me how vividly some personalities come across, and how much opinions can matter in here, and i think the greatest evidence i have of that is that characters from FYM often enter my (non-sexual, i swear) dreams, which is a peculiar thing -- i don't know what anyone looks like (with a few exceptions) so it's a strange process for your brain to create a physical composite of someone based upon their thoughts and written personalities alone.

this is a very interesting form of social interaction and i'm not sure we've all thought it through yet, nor could we, as internet-based realities continue to spin and spiral before us in ever unfolding complexity.

 

[Greenlight]

I find it sad that when someone asks the question:

"What is the name of the song that plays before every Vertigo show?"

Everyone does this and has a sarcastic comment...

I know there are some people who are exceptions, but is it that hard to politely answer the question?

Yes it can be irritating when you see the same questions asked time and time again but I get far more irritated by seeing all the sarcastic comments that ensue. It reminds me of school bullies picking on the new kids.
I read an article a while ago about message boards which basically said that the younger the age group of the forum the more the newbies get attacked whilst forums with an older membership are normally more accepting and helpful to newbies. As Yolland said, it doesn't seem to be a particular problem on FYM compared to some other forums/boards but is that because the average age here is older or are we just more mature?

 

[redhotswami]

it amazes me how vividly some personalities come across, and how much opinions can matter in here, and i think the greatest evidence i have of that is that characters from FYM often enter my (non-sexual, i swear) dreams, which is a peculiar thing -- i don't know what anyone looks like (with a few exceptions) so it's a strange process for your brain to create a physical composite of someone based upon their thoughts and written personalities alone.

tell us of the dreams!

i know what you mean. i get all disoriented when people change their avatars. thats how we tend to recognize them in these forums. and then they go changin and turn my world upside down.

 

[Vincent Vega]

^says the one who is changing her avatar relativley frequently


I think it's safe here to be a newbie.
At another forum I'm on it's much harder to come in as a new member. Even though the majority of posters is already studying or passing the A-levels (Abitur) this year, so they are around 19.

Here you even can embarrass yourself and still get recognized.

 

[Irvine511]

tell us of the dreams!

i swear they're all very calm and involve discussion and i usually find that people are generally very nice, yet certain aspects of their online personality come forth.

example: Yolland is always smiling and nodding and encouraging others to participate and looking to pull out good points in comments and offer them up to the group as discussion pieces. no doubt this image is influenced by my knowledge that she's a professor, and good professors do such things, but that also comes across in her posts.

Dread has a boston accent, not unlike many of my cousins.

etc., etc.

they're all kind of boring, and it's not like it's an FYM dream, per se, but more like FYM characters are invading my always bizarre, occasionally frustrating composite dreams.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

i know what you mean. i get all disoriented when people change their avatars. thats how we tend to recognize them in these forums. and then they go changin and turn my world upside down.

Totally, When Wayne Travis Changed his Avatar I was like, who the hell is this dude? Oh wait...

 

[Dreadsox]

Dread has a boston accent, not unlike many of my cousins.

etc., etc.

You are officially the first gay man that has had a dream about me.

And....

My accent is more CT than Bawston.

 

[Dreadsox]

or conservatives who can't take the heat?

Nope, I think that there are many conservatives who sought and engaged in rational debate. I think you get tired of being accused of being something you are not based on an internet conversation. I think back in the day, there were some decent discussions between conservatives and liberals on this board.

I also think the political climate changed, and the tenor of the dialogue did to.

I am proud to say that there have been times in here when I was accused of being one thing or another and people like yourself, bonovox, verte, angela, pax, and others came to my defense. It meant a lot to me to feel welcomed by this community.

I am not so certain all have been welcomed.

Again, I will be the first to admit I can have an edge to my posting. And when I have been wrong on something, or my posting clearly upset someone, I am the first to attempt to contact the person via PM or Email to apologize. Aside from my aggrivation that so much sensational drudge report stuff gets in here, my biggest disappointment is in the fact that some conservative members are gone. I think I have moved further left over my tenure here on many an issue, and maybe that is why I am still here.

 

[redhotswami]

^says the one who is changing her avatar relativley frequently

don't make me do it again

 

[Vincent Vega]

As long as you leave the signature.
I mean, if you changed both at the same time, people might not recognize you

 

[redhotswami]

oh then it'll be okay. i don't think the sig is going anywhere. IT has a superiority complex, and guilt trips me whenever I consider replacing it.

 

[Irvine511]

You are officially the first gay man that has had a dream about me.

And....

My accent is more CT than Bawston.

but i don't know what you look like, it was only what my brain conjured up based upon your posts and the information you've given us about yourself.

oh, but then you posted the vacation photos and now i do know what you look like.

but, yeah, i think in the dream everyone was at a cafeteria-style restaurant, long tables, eating food, and discussing an issue, there was a great big picture window as well, a pond outside, i think.

really kind of boring. but i was sure it was you sitting at the table.

 

[redhotswami]

but i don't know what you look like, it was only what my brain conjured up based upon your posts and the information you've given us about yourself.

oh, but then you posted the vacation photos and now i do know what you look like.

but, yeah, i think in the dream everyone was at a cafeteria-style restaurant, long tables, eating food, and discussing an issue, there was a great big picture window as well, a pond outside, i think.

really kind of boring. but i was sure it was you sitting at the table.

if you weren't out of town that dream could've been a reality ...but with different people.

 

[yolland]

Nope, I think that there are many conservatives who sought and engaged in rational debate. I think you get tired of being accused of being something you are not based on an internet conversation. I think back in the day, there were some decent discussions between conservatives and liberals on this board.

I also think the political climate changed, and the tenor of the dialogue did to.

For the most part I agree with you, including the effects of political climate (those are very obvious, I think, if you skim through the archives chronologically--it's maybe more a question of an everpresent tension lurking there that didn't before, rather than increased 'bias' per se). What bothers me most is the increase in letting slip snide or condescending digs, mocking, belittling etc.--whether towards individuals or "anonymous" collectives--that don't contribute anything to "debate" at all and over time, add up to creating the impression that certain people apparently have a 'Kick Me' sign stuck on them. It's not that "liberals" have a monopoly on that--I've certainly seen "conservative" posters get condescending and mocking, too--but in the big picture, the statistical discrepancies do add up to a cumulative effect, and I wish people would try to stay sensitive to that, even when others are trying your patience at the moment. I think Lies had the right idea--sure no one can make you like everyone, and really the thought's no skin off my nose if you resolve I'm full of myself and probably a jerk in real life too, but given the low broader-impact stakes this place realistically has, it makes sense to approach it as if people in here were your friends, relatives, coworkers or whatever, and extend them the kind of willingness in principle to assume they're fundamentally a good sort as you would in real life. Otherwise, our political debates are going to get just plain old boring after awhile; you need some tension to draw out the really interesting stuff, but you also need some sensitivity to the psychological risks engaging that tension can pose, especially for 'minority' viewpoints, and mind how you "package" your replies accordingly. If someone can't handle an intellectual challenge well that's their problem, if they're gonna hold it against someone forever for blowing up on them once or twice then that's their problem too...but it's not a sign of being 'thin-skinned' to not want to be regularly taunted and feel like apparently no one else reading cared.

My accent is more CT than Bawston.

Hmm, I've always 'pictured' you with a Bawston accent too, and unlike Irvine, saying 'CT accent' calls nothing to mind for me. I know Brooklyn, Joisey, Bawston and Maine, but that's about it. Then again, I've had encounters with other Southerners where we both did a double take upon hearing each other's accents and were like, "Whoa, where are you from?" Funny how that works...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You are officially the first gay man that has had a dream about me.

so you think...

 

[ntalwar]

What bothers me most is the increase in letting slip snide or condescending digs, mocking, belittling etc.--whether towards individuals or "anonymous" collectives--that don't contribute anything to "debate" at all and over time, add up to creating the impression that certain people apparently have a 'Kick Me' sign stuck on them.

I think that exists throughout the board to some extent though. Posters who don't like (and express) dislike for particular U2 albums, certain sports teams, certain bands, etc. face a bit of a backlash as well in other parts of the forum.

 

[Liesje]

i know what you mean. i get all disoriented when people change their avatars. thats how we tend to recognize them in these forums. and then they go changin and turn my world upside down.

Me too, Mia. In 5+ years, I remember all of my avatars (5, including the current one) and why I switched each time. I HATE changing it!

 

[Irvine511]

I think that exists throughout the board to some extent though. Posters who don't like (and express) dislike for particular U2 albums, certain sports teams, certain bands, etc. face a bit of a backlash as well in other parts of the forum.

agreed, and i think dissenting opinions are more respected in FYM than in other forums -- EYKIW anyone?

 

[yolland]

The fact that it happens less here than in EYKIW ain't saying much. Anyhow, in the big picture it matters less there because the supply of new "minority" viewpoints there is pretty much inexhaustible. If I give up in disgust because I'm tired of getting reamed on for hating Pop or whatever, well there are a dozen more Pop-haters at hand to take my place, and within another couple months there'll be a dozen more. Not to mention, most of us have more invested emotionally in the kind of stuff we discuss here. Yeah, I'd be annoyed if someone ridiculed me for my inability to recognize the astounding genius of whatever album, but the kind of things you're likely to be attacked for here (and I mean attack, not debate) are a lot more disheartening, in my opinion.

 

[Irvine511]

but the kind of things you're likely to be attacked for here (and I mean attack, not debate) are a lot more disheartening, in my opinion.

but the things in here to be attacked/debated lend themselves much more readily to said attacking/debating, as opposed to one's quite subjective opinion on your favorite album or the fact that "miami" is a pretty shite track or that the 2006 version of "kite" is astonishing.