Super scary (to me)

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bonosloveslave

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Article from msnbc:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/843411.asp

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Smallpox shots cause worrry

Experts startled by array of side effects

By Ceci Connolly
THE WASHINGTON POST

Dec. 5 ? As physical specimens, the Baylor University students were fit and healthy, the ?cr?me de la cr?me,? in the words of researcher Kathy Edwards. Yet when she inoculated them with smallpox vaccine, arms swelled, temperatures spiked and panic spread.

IT WAS the same at clinics in Iowa, Tennessee and California. Of 200 young adults who received the vaccine as part of a recent government study, one-third missed at least one day of work or school, 75 had high fevers, and several were put on antibiotics because physicians worried that their blisters signaled a bacterial infection.
Even for experts such as Edwards, the Vanderbilt University physician overseeing the study, the side effects were startling. ?I can read all day about it, but seeing it is quite impressive,? she said. ?The reactions we saw were really quite remarkable.?
President Bush is poised to announce plans, perhaps as early as this week, to resume vaccinating Americans against smallpox as part of a massive push to protect the nation from a biological assault. As he weighs the decision, researchers are becoming reacquainted with the unpleasant ? often severe ? complications of the vaccine.

The experiences in a half-dozen clinical trials offer an early look at what military personnel, hospital workers and other emergency workers will likely encounter if Bush adopts the recommendations of his top health advisers to vaccinate as many as 11 million people in the coming months. What is disconcerting, say the people participating in the clinical trials, is that when it comes to smallpox vaccination, what had once been considered ordinary is rather extraordinary by today?s standards.

TERRIBLY ITCHY
?I just wanted to go to bed for a day or two there,? said Alison Francis, a New York University graduate student who received the vaccine. Francis, 24, said she felt tired and achy after getting her shot. Her arm was heavy, warm to the touch and terribly itchy. ?I thought, ?Can you just chop off my arm?? ?
Participating in the study was part patriotism and part selfishness, she said. ?Now I?m protected.?

Once among the deadliest scourges on earth, smallpox was declared eradicated worldwide in 1981. But growing hostilities with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden and others have renewed fears that the virus could be used as a potent, stealthy weapon. Vaccination is surefire protection against the disease, but it is risky. For every 1 million vaccinated, between 15 and 52 people will suffer life-threatening consequences such as brain inflammation, and one or two will die, according to historical data. Pregnant women, babies, people with eczema or weakened immune systems should not receive the vaccine.
Federal health officials have proposed resuming vaccination in stages, beginning with as many as 500,000 hospital workers most likely to see an initial case. Later, as many as 10 million police, fire and medical personnel would be offered the vaccine. The Pentagon hopes to vaccinate 500,000 soldiers.
Over the past year, federal researchers have been testing the 40-year-old vaccine for its safety and potency. None of the 1,500 volunteers has died or been seriously injured by the vaccine. But even the most mundane cases can be disturbing to doctors and patients unaccustomed to the live virus used in the vaccine and its side effects.
Unlike most modern vaccines, the smallpox vaccine is administered by 15 quick pricks that ?establish an infection in your skin,? said Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. ?There is the immediate discomfort of getting poked in the arm and a range of annoying reactions.?
Within three to four days, a red itchy bump develops, followed by a larger blister filled with pus. In the second week, the blister dries and turns into a scab that usually falls off in the third week. During the three weeks, many people experience flu-like symptoms ? aches, fever, lethargy ? and terrible itchiness.

?PRETTY MISERABLE?
?You can?t scratch it; it?s all bandaged up; all I could do was smack it,? said Meg Gifford, a University of Maryland junior who participated in one study. For a weekend, she was ?pretty miserable,? suffering from a slight fever, an arm that was hot to the touch and swollen lymph nodes in her armpit.
At the University of Rochester Medical Center, researcher John Treanor saw a wide range of reactions, from a small rash to swelling the size of a grapefruit. About 5 percent of the 170 participants had rashes that spread to other parts of the body. It took time and experience, he said, for the team to get comfortable with the natural course of the vaccine.
?The reactions we are seeing are totally out of line with today?s vaccine experience and absolutely in line with historical experience,? said Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. ?In the 30 years since we had routine vaccination, the public?s tolerance level has gone way down.?
Maryland researchers have begun a second trial revaccinating older adults to see how much immunity stays in the system. Early indications are that people who have been previously inoculated do not suffer as many severe side effects. ?I had a small red mark and that was about it,? said Edward Dudley, 33.
Very few of today?s physicians have administered the vaccine or treated its side effects. Even at the CDC, where health experts work with an array of germs, smallpox vaccinations were briefly halted when 10 people had serious enough reactions to begin antibiotics, said Walter Orenstein, director of the CDC?s National Immunization Program.
?The clinic physician couldn?t decide if this was a normal, primary exuberant take or a bacterial infection,? he said. He added that, in fact, the swollen, itchy, red arms were routine.
As a first-year medical student 33 years ago, Orenstein was so alarmed by the fever, swollen glands and red streak up his arm after he was vaccinated that he went to the emergency room for antibiotics. ?I respect this vaccine,? he said.
If Bush moves forward with vaccination, Edwards warns doctors to expect the array of unsightly, unfamiliar complications that will come.
?You are going to have to be prepared to see these individuals and to see really bad takes,? she told state health officers. ?You?ll wonder if they are bacterial infections; in some cases the rash will move up the arm and onto the chest. The vaccinee requires a lot of TLC.?

? 2002 The Washington Post Company

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I've gotten alot of vaccines in my life, gotten flu shots, rabies series etc - I'm really not a baby about it. But reading this made my skin crawl and I feel sick to my stomach :huh:
I know the disease would be much worse than this, but this is one vax I really really really do not want to get :(
 
This is no secret. At the site of the vaccine, there is a mini infection, which lasts 21 days. Hence, why everyone with smallpox vaccines has a very distinctive scar!

This is media hysteria at its worst.

:|

Melon
 
BLSlave,
adamswildhoney,



This is media hysteria at its worst.

Please don't be Super scared, or even a little bit ascared.:wink:

Melon is right.

I am twenty years your senior and have had many vaccinations. My diminished capacity has nothing to do with vaccinations.

Fear seems to be the "new cottage industry" sweeping the nation.

Go see "Bowling for Columbine" have a laugh, and let go of fear.

It is sad to see nice young people like you being affected by all this hype.
 
Really?

deep said:

I am twenty years your senior and have had many vaccinations. My diminished capacity has nothing to do with vaccinations.

Are you sure? I thought you were about 50 years older (at least according to your profile.......) :laugh:
BTW your profile pic cracks me up too :)


Still don't wanna think about it :no:
 
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60 Minutes II is having a segment on this now.

Very interesting.

It is scaring me a little.






XrayCrowd.gif
 
*sneaks a peek at Deeps profile*


I would prefer the injection than the disease just dont think about it

I have had so many injections and they really dont bother me not even at the dentist :shrug:
 
nbcrusader said:
I already had the small pox vaccination (goodness, I?m that old) and my arm still works. Who else has received one?

I see I'm in good company with you and deep.

But I have to say, alternative/natural health freak that I am, I would never have a vaccination today, or a flu shot. I believe there are safer, healthier, more effective alternatives, although I'd have to do a lot of research to tell you what they are. I haven't even touched prescription meds or antibiotics in 15 years. BUT, I am also just incredibly interested in alternative health (having observed one of my closest friends put his MS into remission using only nutrition, herbs, supplements, etc.) so for me, exploring other avenues than allopathic medicine is a natural and exciting approach while for others it would be a giant pain in the ass. If so, they should just get a shot. It didn't hurt most of us, although I can't help but look back at my childhood and wonder how those early vaccinations and standard medical treatments for various things might be at the root of some mild but pesky health issues today.
 
joyfulgirl said:
But I have to say, alternative/natural health freak that I am, I would never have a vaccination today, or a flu shot.

Even I enjoy alternative/natural medicine, but I would never tempt fate by not getting my vaccinations. I have never received a reaction to any of the vaccines I have received (I've even gotten the meningitis vaccine), and, as long as I feel healthy at the moment in time, I would not fear the smallpox vaccine either. I sincerely doubt that alternative medicine would ever go up against a smallpox infection and win, nor would I ever be daring enough to test the theory.

Melon
 
melon said:


I sincerely doubt that alternative medicine would ever go up against a smallpox infection and win, nor would I ever be daring enough to test the theory.

Melon

I have seen it go up against ms and final stage AIDS and cancer and WIN. You just don't hear about it in the news because it's too threatening to the medical/pharmaceutical industry. But even though I say I wouldn't have a vaccination, I guess the truth is that 'never say never' because when truly threatened with something serious, I guess I honestly don't know for sure what path I would take.

Last year every one in my office got a flu shot except me and every single one of them not only got a bad bout of the flu but were sick repeatedly throughout the year--colds, bronchitis, etc.--and each time they took more antibiotics, which weakened their immune systems further. I was the only one who didn't even get a sniffle all year (knock on wood). Of course, the flu is different than smallpox, but I have seen miracles with alternative health and repeated horrors with allopathic treatments and the former is always my first choice.
 
joyfulgirl said:
I have seen it go up against ms and final stage AIDS and cancer and WIN. You just don't hear about it in the news because it's too threatening to the medical/pharmaceutical industry.

I would really be interested in what you have to say about this. If you could elaborate, I would be a captive audience.

Last year every one in my office got a flu shot except me and every single one of them not only got a bad bout of the flu but were sick repeatedly throughout the year--colds, bronchitis, etc.--and each time they took more antibiotics, which weakened their immune systems further.

I'm the same way, although I wouldn't say that antibiotics weaken their systems further necessarily. I would argue that the antibiotics were merely a placebo--in fact, considering the reality that all those aforementioned illnesses are viral, I'm positive. My vitamin regiment has kept me healthy, while others have been sick in the past.

Melon
 
melon, there is so much information out there it's hard to know where to begin. There are also so many different approaches--often they contradict one another but if you follow one program, it works. If you mix it up with another, it doesn't. But here are some starting points.

In the underground alternative health scene, for the do-it-yourself approach, this guy is famous:

www.sambiser.com

But for your particular mind ;) which I am guessing would require more than anecdotal information, I would recommend these sites:

www.biomedicsinstitute.com A clinic in Tijuana, Mexcio (which for some reason seems to have a large number of pretty well-respected alternative health clinics). They use a blend of mostly alternative therapies with a smaller proportion of traditional therapies with a very high success rate--I believe it's around 60-80% of cancer patients achieve 100% remission--using hyperthermia and low-dose radiation, along with massive amounts of intravenous injections of nutrients. A friend of mine with an autoimmune disease used to work for them and still goes there once a year for injections for maintenance. His recovery has been miraculous.

www.paracelsus.ch/e/index.htm A clinic in Switzerland that a friend of mine is involved with with a completely different approach, focusing on dental work and biological medicine. Her whole family went there for various treatments with amazing results. I attended an all-day seminar here and it was absolutely fascinating. It is run by a traditionally trained allopathic physician who turned to alternative health. The American companion site is www.marionfoundation.org.
 
melon said:
I'm the same way, although I wouldn't say that antibiotics weaken their systems further necessarily. I would argue that the antibiotics were merely a placebo--in fact, considering the reality that all those aforementioned illnesses are viral, I'm positive.

Not necessarily. It's possible that they were bacterial infections, but the particular strains had acquired resistance markers through horizontal transfer.
 
joyfulgirl said:
I haven't even touched prescription meds or antibiotics in 15 years.
:bow: :bow:

This vaccine is a joke...and convincing the Americacn public that it's a good idea is a joke.
If the vaccine was created today, it would not even be allowed as a vaccine, that's enough right there for me to not want it.
 
Sparkysgrrrl said:
This vaccine is a joke...and convincing the Americacn public that it's a good idea is a joke.
If the vaccine was created today, it would not even be allowed as a vaccine, that's enough right there for me to not want it.

Really? :confused:

The small pox vaccine was developed over 200 years ago. Small pox was declared erradicated in 1980. Apparently, they didn't check with Iraq.

You are probably more at risk walking down the sidewalk.
 
melon said:


Even I enjoy alternative/natural medicine, but I would never tempt fate by not getting my vaccinations. I have never received a reaction to any of the vaccines I have received (I've even gotten the meningitis vaccine), and, as long as I feel healthy at the moment in time, I would not fear the smallpox vaccine either. I sincerely doubt that alternative medicine would ever go up against a smallpox infection and win, nor would I ever be daring enough to test the theory.

Melon

I got the menngitis injection and it was fine we all had to get it here if you were at school 2 years ago

I seen clips on the news when they said everyone in the britain and n.ireland were getting the small pox vaccines and it was of a nurse with this massive contraption and a big line of people and she just put it up to their arms and they all walked along- so if they could do it then im sure theres nothing wrong with everyone getting it nowadays
 
Fascinating. I dont think I have ever witnessed an intelligent debate over the negatives of vaccinations!
When I was young, my mum did the vaccines so I could go to pre-school and school. I had measles, german measles, chicken pox and mumps vaccines. A while later, I got mumps anyway. 2 years after it, I was diagnosed with diabetes. T'was blamed on the mumps. These vaccines may do harm to an immune system, but what these actual diseases can do can be far far worse.
 
nbcrusader said:
I already had the small pox vaccination (goodness, I?m that old) and my arm still works. Who else has received one?

Well, I guess I am old too!!!!!

I received the vaccination as a child. I have the scars to prove it. I was kind of hoping I received one when I entered the military, or during Desert Storm, but I am pretty sure that I did not.

Having seen the pictures in boot camp of the effects of Biologocal Weapons during my training, I am very concerned about the current world stituation. The pictures are enough to give nightmares.

Strange enough, I received an email from a parental unit yesterday telling me that I was very, very ill from my small pox shot as a child. I guess I had lesions, allergies to foods, high fevers, and something to do with alergies to chemicals. I am curious about the chemical thing because I am hypersensative to chemcials and smells to this very day. Supposedly I was sick for 18months after the shot.

That being said, I am not worried about myself so much as my children inheriting my reaction to the shot.

Peace
 
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