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Old 07-08-2004, 09:21 AM   #16
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Originally posted by indra
<< Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who named the 74-year-old Riordan to his Cabinet, issued a stern statement calling his appointee's remark "unacceptable in any context." But Schwarzenegger went on to say that Riordan "would never knowingly or intentionally upset a child.
ah yes
I can see that
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Old 07-08-2004, 10:46 AM   #17
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What a hole. Resign.
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Old 07-08-2004, 10:57 AM   #18
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Indra:
So Schwarzenegger simply told that Riordan is senile, insensitive or stupid?
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Old 07-08-2004, 11:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Indra:
So Schwarzenegger simply told that Riordan is senile, insensitive or stupid?
ha! i was just going to make that point- the fact that he unknowingly insults a child is damn scary too.

the whole "unknowing" card is ridiculous.
in what reality is calling a child "stupid & dirty" not an insult? bt
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Old 07-08-2004, 11:09 AM   #20
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I'm not defending him AT ALL, but the only possible excuse I can think of is that he might have early stage Alzheimers- if people in that stage make inappropriate comments like that
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Old 07-08-2004, 11:40 AM   #21
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I can't imagine what was going through his mind before he said that?

HOWEVER, before everyone beats their chest in moral outrage and righteous indignation, consider the standard you are now setting.

Will the standard be: If a politician makes any offensive statement, whether intentional or not, they must be removed from office? Does it only apply to small children?

What kind of speech police do you want? Or do we do this on a case-by-case basis (making it ripe for partisian politics).
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Old 07-08-2004, 11:53 AM   #22
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I don't know that anyone is arguing he be *removed*, but an apology sure would be nice.
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Old 07-08-2004, 11:53 AM   #23
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He did apologize to the child. It looks like people want more.
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Old 07-08-2004, 11:56 AM   #24
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I think he ought to apologize to the public as well. They trust this man, after all, with their children's educations.
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Old 07-08-2004, 01:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I can't imagine what was going through his mind before he said that?

HOWEVER, before everyone beats their chest in moral outrage and righteous indignation, consider the standard you are now setting.

Will the standard be: If a politician makes any offensive statement, whether intentional or not, they must be removed from office? Does it only apply to small children?

What kind of speech police do you want? Or do we do this on a case-by-case basis (making it ripe for partisian politics).
I think that the fact that he's a head of education and that it was a child, warrants a little more concern.
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Old 07-08-2004, 02:30 PM   #26
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There is no two ways around this one.
There's something sick going on in the mind of someone who says something that vile to a little child. Pick on someone your own size, asshole.

To address the "step down every time something objectionable is said" boondoggle -- an example:

Letting a curse word slip in front of a little kid while talking to someone else -- okay, that's an oops, you apologize, you take the heat, life goes on.

This situation was nothing of the sort -- Either this guy has dementia or Tourette's, or he is just really, really, really disgusting -- either way he should resign his position NOW.
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Old 07-08-2004, 03:10 PM   #27
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Don't worry, someone who acts that way towards a child or anyone for that matter, will do themselves in eventually. Give him time he'll get his ownself kicked out of office.
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Old 07-08-2004, 03:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I can't imagine what was going through his mind before he said that?

HOWEVER, before everyone beats their chest in moral outrage and righteous indignation, consider the standard you are now setting.

Will the standard be: If a politician makes any offensive statement, whether intentional or not, they must be removed from office? Does it only apply to small children?

What kind of speech police do you want? Or do we do this on a case-by-case basis (making it ripe for partisian politics).
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This is called a 'slippery slope' argument:
Description of Slippery Slope

The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

1. Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
2. Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.
Examples of Slippery Slope

1. "We have to stop the tuition increase! The next thing you know, they'll be charging $40,000 a semester!"

2. "The US shouldn't get involved militarily in other countries. Once the government sends in a few troops, it will then send in thousands to die."

3. "You can never give anyone a break. If you do, they'll walk all over you."

4. "We've got to stop them from banning pornography. Once they start banning one form of literature, they will never stop. Next thing you know, they will be burning all the books!"

*5. "If we force Riordan to resign over this, next we'll be appointing speech police and forcing public figures to step down over ANYTHING offensive!"
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Look at how ridiculous that is.
Demanding this person resign his post over this specific issue does not automatically set in stone any such standard or precedent, and to suggest it does so is heavyhanded at best and dishonest at worst.

Look at the case of the Canadian woman forced to step down for her off-mic comments re America - no great moral struggle over setting precedent there, eh?

Cut the wide-angle lens crap. This is about one man's foul mouth and terrible judgement.
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Old 07-08-2004, 03:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by sue4u2
Don't worry, someone who acts that way towards a child or anyone for that matter, will do themselves in eventually. Give him time he'll get his ownself kicked out of office.
The problem here is that he is appointed, not elected.... unless Ah-nuld has the intestinal fortitude to do what's right and fire him, or he steps down, nothing changes.

That said, I hope the guy goes for a neurological exam, pronto. Completely inappropriate outbursts like that are often signs of impending senile dementia disorders such as Alzheimers and the like.
At 74, he's at the typical age of onset if there's a family history.
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Old 07-08-2004, 04:18 PM   #30
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Originally posted by wolfeden
Look at how ridiculous that is.
Demanding this person resign his post over this specific issue does not automatically set in stone any such standard or precedent, and to suggest it does so is heavyhanded at best and dishonest at worst.
A little research would show you that the "slippery slope" argument is often used when arguing constitutional rights cases.

Shall we act on principle or do we get to pick and choose who gets to be the subject of the witch hunt?

As for setting precedents, responses to action of political figures are often duplicated for others. To suggest that demanding Riordan's resignation will have no impact on other politicians in the future is simply ignorant.
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