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Old 10-21-2003, 10:49 AM   #16
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It strikes me that the reporter is making conclusions not intended/supported by the study. Even the the doctor conducting the study merely speculated that the findings "may explain" transgender issues.

To then extend this to sexual orientation, based on this study alone, is speculation upon speculation.

I hope these studies do help the medical community in ambiguous genitalia at birth cases.
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Old 10-21-2003, 11:20 AM   #17
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I dont like these studies much as they can lend to the 'lets fix this' issue in the long run. That is more for, in this case, the homosexuality aspect. I'd guess with the transgender part there is something there that could possibly be explained scientifically. I have to admit I am overall ignorant of the whole transgender issue having only known one person who went through this. With her (now him) there was definately more than just a psychological battle going on and after he had his surgery and endless and ongoing hormone therapy he was more man than a lot of blokes I know. It was (again I hate to admit) a fascinating process to watch him go through. From knowing him as 'Samantha' to eventually a pretty blokey 'Nick' was very interesting. Took a lot more than guts to go through it too.
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Old 10-21-2003, 06:59 PM   #18
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Geeze I coulda sworn I made apost here a few hour ago... oh well just have to make it again.

The writer of the article has drawn additional conclusions. The scientific study in the article deals with gender identity. While sexual orientation is related to gender identity the two are not one and the same. What this study indicates that gender identity and thus the condition of being transgender is genetic. While this opens up the possibility that sexual orientation is also defined this way, that is beyond the scope of this study.

My church Melon is the Presbyterian Church in Canada. This year the comitee of the study of human sexuality decided to uphold the judgement that practicing homosexuals cannot be ordained. But it did hold up that homosexuals could hold other possitions within the church and that homosexual persons were to be accepted into the church community and given equal ataus within the church. Scriptural interpretation yeilded that to our present understanding as a church homosexual sexual union is a sin. However it was decided that that sexual orientation is innate and not a decision or a "lifestyle choice". It also recommended against conversion programmes. The report also recoomeded that study continue, this was accepted. That's what i got in quick read of the report, you can find it here as a pdf file http://www.presbycan.ca/documents/re...44087c&cmd=xml

Basically the church is stuck at the point I am. One of the main reasons for avoiding a truly definite finding was that such a finding either way would inevitably produce a schism in our church, or explode it the way the United Church did. So basically the finding was, lets practice love and tollerance while keeping th estaus quo until we know more. Hardly the best solution but he one decided to cause teh least friction or immediate damage to the community.
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Old 10-21-2003, 07:52 PM   #19
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or maybe we are all bisexual but choose to only accept the hetero/homosexual parts of us. You never know. We never know anything. Thats why I dont like studies. I dont need all these answers. That sounds very hypocritical coming froma girl who stays up night wondering about where light goes when you turn the flashlight off.
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Old 10-21-2003, 08:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman
Sorry but a "study" wouldnt make me change my mind on anything.
So, in other words, all the cancer, AIDS, diabetes, Alzheimer's, mental illness, MS, etc, etc studies don't tell you anything? You're not convinced that more women suffer from AD than men or that juvenile diabetes is on the rise?

What the heck is the scientific community doing all those studies for? Fun?
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Old 10-22-2003, 12:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blacksword
Geeze I coulda sworn I made apost here a few hour ago... oh well just have to make it again.

The writer of the article has drawn additional conclusions. The scientific study in the article deals with gender identity. While sexual orientation is related to gender identity the two are not one and the same. What this study indicates that gender identity and thus the condition of being transgender is genetic. While this opens up the possibility that sexual orientation is also defined this way, that is beyond the scope of this study.

My church Melon is the Presbyterian Church in Canada. This year the comitee of the study of human sexuality decided to uphold the judgement that practicing homosexuals cannot be ordained. But it did hold up that homosexuals could hold other possitions within the church and that homosexual persons were to be accepted into the church community and given equal ataus within the church. Scriptural interpretation yeilded that to our present understanding as a church homosexual sexual union is a sin. However it was decided that that sexual orientation is innate and not a decision or a "lifestyle choice". It also recommended against conversion programmes. The report also recoomeded that study continue, this was accepted. That's what i got in quick read of the report, you can find it here as a pdf file http://www.presbycan.ca/documents/re...44087c&cmd=xml

Basically the church is stuck at the point I am. One of the main reasons for avoiding a truly definite finding was that such a finding either way would inevitably produce a schism in our church, or explode it the way the United Church did. So basically the finding was, lets practice love and tollerance while keeping th estaus quo until we know more. Hardly the best solution but he one decided to cause teh least friction or immediate damage to the community.
Thanks for the explanation.

Melon
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Old 10-22-2003, 06:46 AM   #22
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what I find odd is that some christians allow that being homosexual in and of itself is acceptable but then they oppose their union.

this seems contradictory to me
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Old 10-22-2003, 11:26 AM   #23
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what I find odd is that some christians allow that being homosexual in and of itself is acceptable but then they oppose their union.

this seems contradictory to me
It's just a mask. You can't truly "accept" people and then deny them rights.
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Old 10-22-2003, 06:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


So, in other words, all the cancer, AIDS, diabetes, Alzheimer's, mental illness, MS, etc, etc studies don't tell you anything? You're not convinced that more women suffer from AD than men or that juvenile diabetes is on the rise?

What the heck is the scientific community doing all those studies for? Fun?
In my opinion this study is something that i think is a choice. Not genetics. Others think differently. A study wont change my mind.

Also, Melon, because some of us havent taken genetics courses doesnt invalidate our opinions. I feel you think some of us arent smart enough to talk on 'your' level.
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Old 10-23-2003, 12:18 AM   #25
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Originally posted by bonoman


In my opinion this study is something that i think is a choice. Not genetics. Others think differently. A study wont change my mind.

So for this paticular study you'll deny any truth that could be there but otherwise you're O.K? So what happens if it moves beyond a study?
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Old 10-23-2003, 01:57 AM   #26
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I never said that. But when i turn on the news and their leading story is Cancer breakthrough and i listen to what is said and it is said that it is in the early stages or something to that effect then i get pissed off. i am turned off studies. They usually turn out to be attention grabbers or make for good headlines but in the end have nothing that is of subsatnce, not saying that some do but i dont have the time to be reading through every study done to find out what the truths and the fictions are. If it is something that can shange my life then i would expect it to have a difference in my life (if it even does effect my life, and this is mostly talking about medical studies.)

I dont have the time to be looking into each study to find out if they are put on by people with agendas and you might not even find out if they are.

So, right or wrong, i paint them all with the same brush and dismiss them until they affect me in a way i must become interested.
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Old 10-23-2003, 08:10 AM   #27
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bonoman, that is ridiculous..and an offense to all biochem, chemistry, biology, and physics majors out there....if fact...it's an offense to ever field of study both arts and science.

we would still be in the stone age if it wasn't for "studies"

your outlook on them is surprisingly naive
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