Students Suspended For Wearing 9/11 And First Amendment T-Shirts

[MrsSpringsteen]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060913/NEWS02/609130320

Ben Lewandowski says he was only trying to be patriotic when he wore a homemade T-shirt featuring an American flag bumper sticker and the words "Remember 9/11" to Lincoln Park High School on Monday.

After all, it was Sept. 11 -- five years after the terrorist attacks.

The 17-year-old Lincoln Park resident put the shirt on Monday morning and headed to school -- where he was quickly sent to the office and suspended for three days for violating the school's dress code.

He was one of at least seven students sent home for wearing shirts featuring patriotic images and messages. It comes less than a week after three siblings were suspended for wearing shirts emblazoned with the First Amendment, despite warnings, and a week after more than 200 students were sent home on the first day of school for violating the district's dress code -- which bans apparel with writing or pictures...

...According to the dress code, students are allowed to wear school-sanctioned clothing, such as T-shirts bearing the school's mascot or clothing that supports school organizations.

This, according to the ACLU of Michigan, may violate the students' rights, particularly because it allows students to wear clothing that encourages school spirit but bans other forms of expression. ACLU officials have said that they plan to look into the constitutionality of the dress code.

Kite said the district had lawyers review the policy before it was enacted. Members of the district's school board have said the dress code is lenient compared with other districts such as Detroit and Pontiac, which have banned jeans and T-shirts completely.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Dont you love it when people overreact to an overreaction?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

if the school district has a stated dress code then that's that. you're either complient with the dress code or you aren't, no matter how positive or negative whatever message you have written on your shirt.

to me all this is is a couple of teenagers who didn't like the new dress code, thought they were clever, and had the local press blow it out of proportion.

 

[BVS]

if the school district has a stated dress code then that's that. you're either complient with the dress code or you aren't, no matter how positive or negative whatever message you have written on your shirt.

to me all this is is a couple of teenagers who didn't like the new dress code, thought they were clever, and had the local press blow it out of proportion.

 

[BVS]

This, according to the ACLU of Michigan, may violate the students' rights, particularly because it allows students to wear clothing that encourages school spirit but bans other forms of expression. ACLU officials have said that they plan to look into the constitutionality of the dress code.

I wonder what all those conservatives who scream ACLU is evil think about this?

 

[Liesje]

um...a dress code is a dress code. I had the same dress code at my job - plain business casual, no logos unless it was the college's name/logo.

 

[Angela Harlem]

if the school district has a stated dress code then that's that. you're either complient with the dress code or you aren't, no matter how positive or negative whatever message you have written on your shirt.

to me all this is is a couple of teenagers who didn't like the new dress code, thought they were clever, and had the local press blow it out of proportion.

that's right. do the practical and sensible thing and send them home. suspending students for 3 days over wearing a t-shirt is excessive. then their ringing the aclu and dragging the constitution into it is simply using the opportunity for a nice juicy shitfight. doesn't everyone feel energised when they get all up in arms over sweet bugger all?

 

[the iron horse]

This and other stuff (all over) is why I always vote Libertarian in U.S. elections.



"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take everything away from you."

~Barry Goldwater

 

[Chizip]

that's right. do the practical and sensible thing and send them home. suspending students for 3 days over wearing a t-shirt is excessive.

i thought a 3 day suspension for a uniform violation was excessive myself, until i saw this

It comes less than a week after three siblings were suspended for wearing shirts emblazoned with the First Amendment, despite warnings, and a week after more than 200 students were sent home on the first day of school for violating the district's dress code

because of this incident on the first day of school im sure the school decided to inact the 3 day suspension rule in order to prevent future incidents. but the little shit disturbers thought theyd push the limit by wearing a patriotic shirt on 9/11 to see if the school would really suspend them for that. well the school did as they should have.

 

[Chizip]

this was from later in the article...

Kelly Galley agrees. Her three children -- 13-year-old twins Monique and Jaicen Massa and 11-year-old Jaymie Massa -- were suspended last week for protesting the dress code by wearing T-shirts with the First Amendment on them. Jaymie had stayed home from Lincoln Park Middle School on Tuesday, but Monique and Jaicen wore the shirts again -- their third offense -- and were suspended again, this time for five days. One more offense and they'll be expelled.

Galley said it's likely she'll end up homeschooling.

come on, its a stupid dress code, a lenient one in which you can still wear jeans and a tshirt. how much do you want to bet that the mom was behind the whole "protest" in the first place? and now her kids will get expelled, sweet.

 

[BVS]

This and other stuff (all over) is why I always vote Libertarian in U.S. elections.



"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take everything away from you."

~Barry Goldwater

Did I miss something? Was this a governmental issued dress code?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

facts are facts... in the business world you are expected to adhire to a specific dress code. if you don't like that, you'll either get fired or won't get the job in the first place.

the earlier kids learn this the better... and that's only the tip of the ice berg on the uniform issue.

 

[Bonochick]

The news in Detroit has been heavily covering the Detroit teachers strike, which seems to finally be over. After a judge had earlier ordered them back to class though, they didn't return. One of them said, "Just because something is law doesn't mean it's right."

I know Lincoln Park isn't one of the school areas that was affected by the strike...but I just think it's really funny that a student gets in trouble for violating a strict dress code to merely be patriotic on such a sad anniversary, yet those Detroit teachers all got away with not following a court order just because they didn't think it was right.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Hmm, interesting Bonochick. Good point you have there I think. I do have to wonder why an exception can't be made for 9/11, I suppose it just opens it up for all kinds of possible exceptions.

 

[80sU2isBest]

that's right. do the practical and sensible thing and send them home. suspending students for 3 days over wearing a t-shirt is excessive. then their ringing the aclu and dragging the constitution into it is simply using the opportunity for a nice juicy shitfight. doesn't everyone feel energised when they get all up in arms over sweet bugger all?

I agree.

 

[Bono's shades]

When I was in high school 20 years ago you could wear any kind of writing or logo on your shirt that you wanted as long as it wasn't obscene or offensive, or had to do with alcohol or drugs.

Are public high school dress codes in general getting stricter? I wonder if they decided it was too hard to determine what should be considered offensive and therefore banned all messages except the school logo.

 

[the iron horse]

Just another example of the Baby Boomer Gens, now in control, censoring another student.

Back in the 60s these cool hippies were all about personal freedom.

Now they seem hell bent on passing law after law restricting personal freedoms.

 

[BonosSaint]

As a person who never wore school spirit stuff and was always a little healthily subversive and rebellious, I'm a little uncomfortable with rules like this. I'm not particularly militant, but I didn't mind a little provocation then and now.

Do you think these rules are a violation of constitutionally protected free speech? Is it ironic to ban a First Amendment shirt while teaching the Bill of Rights? (OK, I agree the mother was probably being deliberately provocative and I doubt that the children themselves were exercising their rights of free speech)
Do civil rights begin at 18?

I'm torn. The schools have a right to require discipline. I can see where no restrictions can lead to some hateful things on shirts and at least some forms of intimidation in a place where you have a captive population. I can see where much of it is not an exercise of free speech but an exercise in perceived freedom of disruption.

Are the rules right? Is there a balance somewhere or is it even appropriate to ask whether there is a balance?

 

[Liesje]

I think it's easiest to simply use a dress code and avoid having to wade through what is OK and what's not. People can perceived things differently, so what one person sees as being a respectful way to memorialize Sept. 11, someone else might see as an offensive political message. Who's right and who gets to decide?

I can't find anything wrong or unconstitutional with just wearing plain clothes to school. This is what most adults do on a daily basis, based on their jobs, and no one's crying about it. You can still join clubs, write blogs, send op-eds to the local paper, organize rallies, yadda yadda yadda.

IMO it's a waste of time and resources for the admin to be deciding which t-shirts are OK and which aren't. They're all just distractions anyway. If kids want to get political or rebellious, they can do it through a more useful medium like the things I suggested above. For me, the bottom line is that I don't think children's lives are missing something crucial if they're not allowed to wear logos to school.

 

[U2DMfan]

Personally, I think if they are 18, I say let them wear whatever they like, that is for those kids who are in public school. Exceptions would be the obvious offensive material.

I don't buy the civil libertarian argument in this case, although I am pretty much a civil libertarian myself. We are not talking about adults, not legally recognized adults anyhow.

Look at it this way, if your kid is in a public school, you are letting the 'state' effectively program your kids with their education system. If you are okay with that, then allowing them to set some basic behaviour guidelines is not a slippery slope to anything but common sense. If you want to absolve yourself from the big hand of government, take the fight elsewhere where it is needed.

 

[U2DMfan]

As a person who never wore school spirit stuff and was always a little healthily subversive and rebellious, I'm a little uncomfortable with rules like this. I'm not particularly militant, but I didn't mind a little provocation then and now.

Do you think these rules are a violation of constitutionally protected free speech? Is it ironic to ban a First Amendment shirt while teaching the Bill of Rights? (OK, I agree the mother was probably being deliberately provocative and I doubt that the children themselves were exercising their rights of free speech)
Do civil rights begin at 18?

I'm torn. The schools have a right to require discipline. I can see where no restrictions can lead to some hateful things on shirts and at least some forms of intimidation in a place where you have a captive population. I can see where much of it is not an exercise of free speech but an exercise in perceived freedom of disruption.

Are the rules right? Is there a balance somewhere or is it even appropriate to ask whether there is a balance?

You ask the right questions, I don't have any great answers.
The freedom of speech argument is a good one.
I guess the most simple answer is that we don't really consider those under 18 to have the same rights. We don't consider them to be legally responsible for anything, I see it as pretty consistent. I'd be open to reading opinions who don't see it as consistent, outside of anarchists.

I think a distinction has to be made when a person becomes an adult. If it's 18, then let 'em buy alcohol and let 'em have their free speech, of course. I'd concede limiting the personal liberty of those under 18 as long as you actually give it to them when they turn 18. Makes sense to me.

 

[Maggie1]

Just another example of the Baby Boomer Gens, now in control, censoring another student.

Back in the 60s these cool hippies were all about personal freedom.

Now they seem hell bent on passing law after law restricting personal freedoms.

The problem today is the kids wear logo's which are ment to directly offend and anger someone else in a critical way. This kind of behavior does not have anything to do with personal freedom. It is about pissing someone off and causing problems. Because of this, the schools have to ban all logos. Ths kids caused this not the school or baby boomers.

 

[Devlin]

Oh, please! That's hardly a 'new' thing. Kids have been doing that forever.

In the words of my boss's niece to his singing of 'Kids today': Kids yesterday, kids tomorrow.

 

[Carek1230]

What a freakin clusterfuck.

dress code=violation=suspension=end of story

 

[Justin24]

Are you oppsesed to having public school students wear a uniform?

 

[verte76]

No.

 

[namkcuR]

I was in a public school system in Ohio from 1990(Kindergarden) to 2003(high school graduation), and throughout those thirteen years, the dress code was simply, 'you can wear whatever you want - clotheswise - as long as it's not blatently offensive(aka no four-letter words, no swastikas, no middle fingers, no turds, etc etc)'. Hats weren't allowed indoors, but other than that, the dress code was very, very leniant, and I was always very greatful for that.

That's the way it should be.

Some of you say it's too difficult to decide what's offensive and what's not, but it's not that difficult. You just use common sense. A swastika on a shirt would be offensive. A shirt with the 'seven dirty words' listed on it would be offensive(not to be personally but it in a general sense it would be). Patriotism is not offensive. School officials just need to use common sense when deciding these things.

Furthermore, I don't feel any student should be punished for wearing any piece of clothing unless that student presents an action to go along with what he/she is wearing.

Say you're a a student in school, and you're a muslim. Now, say there's another kid in your class wearing a t-shirt that has something derogatory about islam on it. If this other student simply goes about his business without saying a word about the shirt or otherwise drawing attention to the shirt, he has done nothing wrong. If, however, this other student comes to you(the muslim student) and rubs it in your face that he's wearing that particular shirt, and mocks you about it, THEN he has done something wrong.

Simply wearing a piece of clothing is not offensive. It is the actions that go along with it that can be offensive.

That is why I find dress codes - in schools(work dress codes are different matter, because they are neccessary) - to be silly for the most part.

 

[Liesje]

Simply wearing a piece of clothing is not offensive. It is the actions that go along with it that can be offensive.

Motivations/intent can also be offensive, IMO.

I also had a dress code similar to yours - no curse words, no messages of hate or discrimination, all shirts had to have sleeves (no camis or spaghetti tanks for girls and no "wife beaters" for guys), all skirts had to be knee-length, and all girls' shorts had to have at least a 6 inch inseam. We never really had a problem with this dress code either. Sometimes they forgot about the sleeves rule because our school never had AC and it gets in the 90s here sometimes in May - Sept. However, I nor any of my peers would have had a problem with a more traditional dress code.

 

[fah]

I'm sure a lot of you have already seen the following video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=U-aD5Ir5_b0

Dress codes in schools