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Old 09-14-2006, 08:23 PM   #16
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When I was in high school 20 years ago you could wear any kind of writing or logo on your shirt that you wanted as long as it wasn't obscene or offensive, or had to do with alcohol or drugs.

Are public high school dress codes in general getting stricter? I wonder if they decided it was too hard to determine what should be considered offensive and therefore banned all messages except the school logo.
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Old 09-14-2006, 10:28 PM   #17
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Just another example of the Baby Boomer Gens, now in control, censoring another student.

Back in the 60s these cool hippies were all about personal freedom.

Now they seem hell bent on passing law after law restricting personal freedoms.
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:43 AM   #18
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As a person who never wore school spirit stuff and was always a little healthily subversive and rebellious, I'm a little uncomfortable with rules like this. I'm not particularly militant, but I didn't mind a little provocation then and now.

Do you think these rules are a violation of constitutionally protected free speech? Is it ironic to ban a First Amendment shirt while teaching the Bill of Rights? (OK, I agree the mother was probably being deliberately provocative and I doubt that the children themselves were exercising their rights of free speech)
Do civil rights begin at 18?

I'm torn. The schools have a right to require discipline. I can see where no restrictions can lead to some hateful things on shirts and at least some forms of intimidation in a place where you have a captive population. I can see where much of it is not an exercise of free speech but an exercise in perceived freedom of disruption.

Are the rules right? Is there a balance somewhere or is it even appropriate to ask whether there is a balance?
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:50 AM   #19
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I think it's easiest to simply use a dress code and avoid having to wade through what is OK and what's not. People can perceived things differently, so what one person sees as being a respectful way to memorialize Sept. 11, someone else might see as an offensive political message. Who's right and who gets to decide?

I can't find anything wrong or unconstitutional with just wearing plain clothes to school. This is what most adults do on a daily basis, based on their jobs, and no one's crying about it. You can still join clubs, write blogs, send op-eds to the local paper, organize rallies, yadda yadda yadda.

IMO it's a waste of time and resources for the admin to be deciding which t-shirts are OK and which aren't. They're all just distractions anyway. If kids want to get political or rebellious, they can do it through a more useful medium like the things I suggested above. For me, the bottom line is that I don't think children's lives are missing something crucial if they're not allowed to wear logos to school.
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Old 09-15-2006, 01:37 AM   #20
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Personally, I think if they are 18, I say let them wear whatever they like, that is for those kids who are in public school. Exceptions would be the obvious offensive material.

I don't buy the civil libertarian argument in this case, although I am pretty much a civil libertarian myself. We are not talking about adults, not legally recognized adults anyhow.

Look at it this way, if your kid is in a public school, you are letting the 'state' effectively program your kids with their education system. If you are okay with that, then allowing them to set some basic behaviour guidelines is not a slippery slope to anything but common sense. If you want to absolve yourself from the big hand of government, take the fight elsewhere where it is needed.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
As a person who never wore school spirit stuff and was always a little healthily subversive and rebellious, I'm a little uncomfortable with rules like this. I'm not particularly militant, but I didn't mind a little provocation then and now.

Do you think these rules are a violation of constitutionally protected free speech? Is it ironic to ban a First Amendment shirt while teaching the Bill of Rights? (OK, I agree the mother was probably being deliberately provocative and I doubt that the children themselves were exercising their rights of free speech)
Do civil rights begin at 18?

I'm torn. The schools have a right to require discipline. I can see where no restrictions can lead to some hateful things on shirts and at least some forms of intimidation in a place where you have a captive population. I can see where much of it is not an exercise of free speech but an exercise in perceived freedom of disruption.

Are the rules right? Is there a balance somewhere or is it even appropriate to ask whether there is a balance?
You ask the right questions, I don't have any great answers.
The freedom of speech argument is a good one.
I guess the most simple answer is that we don't really consider those under 18 to have the same rights. We don't consider them to be legally responsible for anything, I see it as pretty consistent. I'd be open to reading opinions who don't see it as consistent, outside of anarchists.

I think a distinction has to be made when a person becomes an adult. If it's 18, then let 'em buy alcohol and let 'em have their free speech, of course. I'd concede limiting the personal liberty of those under 18 as long as you actually give it to them when they turn 18. Makes sense to me.
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Old 09-15-2006, 08:10 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
Just another example of the Baby Boomer Gens, now in control, censoring another student.

Back in the 60s these cool hippies were all about personal freedom.

Now they seem hell bent on passing law after law restricting personal freedoms.
The problem today is the kids wear logo's which are ment to directly offend and anger someone else in a critical way. This kind of behavior does not have anything to do with personal freedom. It is about pissing someone off and causing problems. Because of this, the schools have to ban all logos. Ths kids caused this not the school or baby boomers.
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:16 PM   #23
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Oh, please! That's hardly a 'new' thing. Kids have been doing that forever.

In the words of my boss's niece to his singing of 'Kids today': Kids yesterday, kids tomorrow.
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:41 PM   #24
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What a freakin clusterfuck.

dress code=violation=suspension=end of story
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:44 PM   #25
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Are you oppsesed to having public school students wear a uniform?
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Old 09-15-2006, 08:25 PM   #26
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No.
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Old 09-16-2006, 09:39 PM   #27
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I was in a public school system in Ohio from 1990(Kindergarden) to 2003(high school graduation), and throughout those thirteen years, the dress code was simply, 'you can wear whatever you want - clotheswise - as long as it's not blatently offensive(aka no four-letter words, no swastikas, no middle fingers, no turds, etc etc)'. Hats weren't allowed indoors, but other than that, the dress code was very, very leniant, and I was always very greatful for that.

That's the way it should be.

Some of you say it's too difficult to decide what's offensive and what's not, but it's not that difficult. You just use common sense. A swastika on a shirt would be offensive. A shirt with the 'seven dirty words' listed on it would be offensive(not to be personally but it in a general sense it would be). Patriotism is not offensive. School officials just need to use common sense when deciding these things.

Furthermore, I don't feel any student should be punished for wearing any piece of clothing unless that student presents an action to go along with what he/she is wearing.

Say you're a a student in school, and you're a muslim. Now, say there's another kid in your class wearing a t-shirt that has something derogatory about islam on it. If this other student simply goes about his business without saying a word about the shirt or otherwise drawing attention to the shirt, he has done nothing wrong. If, however, this other student comes to you(the muslim student) and rubs it in your face that he's wearing that particular shirt, and mocks you about it, THEN he has done something wrong.

Simply wearing a piece of clothing is not offensive. It is the actions that go along with it that can be offensive.

That is why I find dress codes - in schools(work dress codes are different matter, because they are neccessary) - to be silly for the most part.
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR

Simply wearing a piece of clothing is not offensive. It is the actions that go along with it that can be offensive.

Motivations/intent can also be offensive, IMO.

I also had a dress code similar to yours - no curse words, no messages of hate or discrimination, all shirts had to have sleeves (no camis or spaghetti tanks for girls and no "wife beaters" for guys), all skirts had to be knee-length, and all girls' shorts had to have at least a 6 inch inseam. We never really had a problem with this dress code either. Sometimes they forgot about the sleeves rule because our school never had AC and it gets in the 90s here sometimes in May - Sept. However, I nor any of my peers would have had a problem with a more traditional dress code.
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:14 AM   #29
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I'm sure a lot of you have already seen the following video:

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