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Old 04-30-2007, 09:36 AM   #1
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Student Faces Criminal Charges, Dropped By Marines For Essay

I have never heard of anyone being charged criminally for creative writing. Is this a temporary thing because of VA Tech or will it become the norm? Sounds as if his future plans are down the drain. Would that writing indicate he needs any counseling? If anything I think that should be explored rather than criminal charges-but the teacher also told the students be creative with no judgment. If someone writes something like that, is it just creative or does it indicate underlying issues?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18353425/

CARY, Ill. - Allen Lee was on the verge of realizing a dream to become a Marine after signing enlistment papers this month. But one violent, profanity-laced English essay later, the 18-year-old’s future with the Marine Corps appears to be over.

Because of pending criminal charges stemming from his essay, Lee’s recruiter told him Friday that the Marine Corps has discharged him from his contract, said Sgt. Luis R. Agostini, spokesman for the Marine Corps Recruiting Station Chicago.

“Basically, he is no longer an applicant to become a Marine,” Agostini said.

The senior at suburban Cary-Grove High School was charged this week with two misdemeanor counts of disorderly conduct after the principal turned his creative writing essay over to police.


The essay, written Monday, reads in part, “Blood, sex and booze. Drugs, drugs, drugs are fun. Stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, s...t...a...b...puke. So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone, then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did.”
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:54 AM   #2
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Y'know, you can't have it both ways. Everybody was screaming that "someone should have known" because the VT nutjob wrote such scary stuff. Now some poor asshole writes scary stuff, which is really more inappropriate than scary, and school officials react how outsiders wanted the VT officials to react, and now it's too much.

Everybody needs to make up their minds. Are school officials responsible for nutjobs or not?
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:02 AM   #3
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^ They're not. This is kinda stupid. And how exactly can he be charged with a crime? Thank god it's a misdemeanor...imagine being in jail and being asked what you're in for, and all you've got is "I wrote this essay..."
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:02 AM   #4
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I just read an article about a woman, about to graduate from college with a teaching degree/certificate who was not given that degree/certification because of a picture she posted on her Myspace page.

Here's the article:

Quote:

MILLERSVILLE, Pa. - A woman denied a teaching degree on the eve of graduation because of a MySpace photo has sued the university.

Millersville University instead granted Stacy Snyder a degree in English last year after learning of her Web-published picture, which bore the caption "Drunken Pirate."

"I dreamed about being a teacher for a long time," said Snyder, 27, who now works as a nanny.

The photo, taken at a 2005 Halloween party, shows Snyder wearing a pirate hat while drinking from a plastic "Mr. Goodbar" cup. It was posted on her own MySpace site.

Although Snyder apologized, she learned the day before graduation that she would not be awarded an education degree or teaching certificate.

Jane S. Bray, dean of the School of Education, accused Snyder of promoting underage drinking, the suit states.

The federal lawsuit seeks at least $75,000 in damages. Millersville spokeswoman Janet Kacskos referred questions to a state System of Higher Education spokesman, who declined comment.
This seems absolutely absured to me. I don't get the "promoting underage drinking" bit at all...if she's 27 now and the photo was taken in 2005 she was no younger than 25 at that time. That just amazed me.

btw -- why I posted this here is I thought it was somewhat similar in that the school reactions seem excessive and reactionary.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:14 AM   #5
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I'm guessing she wins (the suit). How the hell can they just deny her a degree, after she did the work for it? This reminds me of the Budweiser worker who got fired because a picture of him drinking a Miller appeared in the local paper. Just ridiculous.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:17 AM   #6
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While I don't think that they can withhold the degree if she met all of the criteria, I have heard of facebook and myspace photos being used by employers as reasons to not hire someone. Either don't post the photos or make your profile private so you control who gets to see them.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:20 AM   #7
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Quite frankly, when this is what he expresses publically given the task of creative writing, I think there is no place for him in the military.
Maybe he should think about a career as an author of gore movies or such, but not be trained by the marines.

I don't think the criminal charges are justified, but that in light of the VTech shootings teachers are a bit more careful and report such things should be far from excessive or reactionary.

However, the story indra posted is worrysome.
She was, as stated, at least 25 when she drank the alcohol, and it was in her freetime, at a party. Even if children were present there is no justification at all in denying her the teacher's degree.

The investigation done by US companies about their employees is a reason that would withhold me from working there.
They have no right to investigate into, spy, follow or whatsoever my private life.
And they have no say in what I do, take or use outside of my work time.
If I did illegal things, and they found out, fine.
As long as what I do is legal and doesn't cause trouble with my employer or harms my working performance it's not their f****** business.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by randhail
While I don't think that they can withhold the degree if she met all of the criteria, I have heard of facebook and myspace photos being used by employers as reasons to not hire someone.
I think that ridiculous too though. It was a freaking Halloween costume for Christ's sake. How in the world is a Halloween costume a problem?
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I think that ridiculous too though. It was a freaking Halloween costume for Christ's sake. How in the world is a Halloween costume a problem?

I don't disagree with you at all, it's just the current state of things that we really need to be careful of the things we post on the net.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by randhail



I don't disagree with you at all, it's just the current state of things that we really need to be careful of the things we post on the net.
Yeah, that should generally be taken into account, as there are many crazy people around exploiting such sites, and all this "web2.0" mania, for their personal gain or pleasure. So people should be more careful about what they make available online in general.
However, I don't think that my future employer should spy after me on the net and use things against me.
Or at least, find a more creative reason why he decided not to employ me.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:34 AM   #11
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If anyone is at all worried about employment issues they should not have a MySpace or anything similar, in my opinion. They even look at those now when you apply for jobs. Even with no objectionable content, who is to say how someone could subjectively evaluate content that seems completely innocuous and possibly have subjective biases about it? Interviews can be subjective enough, why add to it?
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:40 AM   #12
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Re: Student Faces Criminal Charges, Dropped By Marines For Essay

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

The essay, written Monday, reads in part, “Blood, sex and booze. Drugs, drugs, drugs are fun. Stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, s...t...a...b...puke. So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone, then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did.”
I don't see how something like that can just be ignored and passed off as simply being creative writing, especially with all that has been going on in recent years...and just earlier this month.

When I was in high school, I was going to confirmation classes at my church every week. We were given a creative writing assignment where we had to write what a "dream day" for us would entail. I read mine first...it was fairly silly, I remember it involved Pez and Bono. Everybody was laughing. Then another person went. He said that he would get a gun and go to school and shoot everybody he hates. He then pointed at me, and said, "I'd shoot you first. I hate you."

I sat there stunned for a second before I just got up and walked out of class. The police were called, and he got suspended from school.

I realize there is a bit of a difference, since he actually a direct threat towards me...but I think that things have gotten even worse than when I was in high school. People have to be even more cautious.

If that kid is a straight A student, I would think he would have enough sense to realize that penning something like that wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't just be passed off as a simple creative writing exercise and left at that. That's disturbing.

Flashing back to high school again, I used to belong to the school's writing/poetry club. My writing had a tendency to be dark, I was pretty depressed. I used to write things that sometimes, frustratingly, got me sent to the counselor's office, as they feared I would hurt or kill myself. As annoyed by it as I was, I now see why it's important for things like that to be taken note of...especially when those thoughts are directed at others as well (for the record, I never wrote about hurting or killing others).
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
If anyone is at all worried about employment issues they should not have a MySpace or anything similar, in my opinion. They even look at those now when you apply for jobs. Even with no objectionable content, who is to say how someone could subjectively evaluate content that seems completely innocuous and possibly have subjective biases about it? Interviews can be subjective enough, why add to it?
Do you include posting on bulletin boards in your "what not to do" list? Let's face it, much of what people poost on here could make a potential employer think twice about hiring someone. Or do you think they just won't know about these? I mean think about it -- to a certain type of person you could come across as a ball buster.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:46 AM   #14
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I locked both my Myspace and my LiveJournal before I went on the academic job market. Granted, I'm applying for college jobs, but I didn't want to take any chances. People so often forget that the internet is a public domain, and that even if they use a screen name or an alias, they can still give themselves away in other ways.

I have to laugh that the articles I've written for Interference are some of the first things that come up when you Google me. I wonder if they'll help me get a job?
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:57 AM   #15
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Re: Re: Student Faces Criminal Charges, Dropped By Marines For Essay

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Originally posted by Bonochick


I don't see how something like that can just be ignored and passed off as simply being creative writing, especially with all that has been going on in recent years...and just earlier this month.

When I was in high school, I was going to confirmation classes at my church every week. We were given a creative writing assignment where we had to write what a "dream day" for us would entail. I read mine first...it was fairly silly, I remember it involved Pez and Bono. Everybody was laughing. Then another person went. He said that he would get a gun and go to school and shoot everybody he hates. He then pointed at me, and said, "I'd shoot you first. I hate you."

I sat there stunned for a second before I just got up and walked out of class. The police were called, and he got suspended from school.

I realize there is a bit of a difference, since he actually a direct threat towards me...but I think that things have gotten even worse than when I was in high school. People have to be even more cautious.

If that kid is a straight A student, I would think he would have enough sense to realize that penning something like that wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't just be passed off as a simple creative writing exercise and left at that. That's disturbing.

Flashing back to high school again, I used to belong to the school's writing/poetry club. My writing had a tendency to be dark, I was pretty depressed. I used to write things that sometimes, frustratingly, got me sent to the counselor's office, as they feared I would hurt or kill myself. As annoyed by it as I was, I now see why it's important for things like that to be taken note of...especially when those thoughts are directed at others as well (for the record, I never wrote about hurting or killing others).
I think all the kid can be accused of is crap writing...I mean should the writers of the Saw movies, for instance, be all sent to get psychiatric help?

People making direct threats like the one against you do need help....I would only advise counselling or an assessment of mental health for kids if there is a pattern of disturbed writing.
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