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Old 05-13-2003, 03:34 PM   #31
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Besides, your defence of strip clubs does not even take into account the experiences of the women who work there. Many women are forced into jobs such as stripping because it's the only way they can earn money to survive. Strip clubs are often horribly exploitative of the women who work there but because it's very rare for strip clubs to have union representation, women who complain about this treatment will simply be fired.
Actually, this is debatable. The classic feminist opinion is that these clubs are exploitative. However, a lot of women go to them for the money and that's it; some women go to these places to make lots of quick cash that they know they cannot get elsewhere. I would hardly say that everyone is "exploited," when women can make lots of money in one night. A lot of professions do not have union representation, which I somewhat lament, but that does not mean that all non-union workplaces are inherently exploitative. But what's the alternative? Homelessness? I don't think Dubya is suddenly going to get more charitable if strip clubs close down...

Just to note, there is one stripper union here in the U.S. There was a documentary made of it a few years back.

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Old 05-13-2003, 03:42 PM   #32
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The GMB (a British Union) recently started to organise people working in strip clubs etc, which I personally think is a step forward.

My comments about women being forced into stripping to make money is based on people I know having been in this situation. I work for a women's group at college and we've had lots of women who have told us they were forced into working in strip clubs because they didn't get enough money in student loans to pay for their accomodation or their tuition fees. In a way I agree with your argument about what the alternative is, but it also makes me angry that we live in a society where women are forced into jobs like stripping in order to get a college education, or in order to look after children.
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Old 05-13-2003, 03:48 PM   #33
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I understand your anger, but the male alternative is to work a shitty minimum wage job, take on lots of student loans, or go homeless. If I had the alternative for stripping, if in a terrible life situation, I'd certainly like to have it.

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Old 05-13-2003, 04:37 PM   #34
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I have a friend who works as a stripper. She comes from an upper middle class family, has a degree in physics and works for the state during the day and strips on weekends. Why? She says because she loves it. She insists she has never felt exploited, though the clientele is for the most part sleazy. My personal take on it is that I think she's working through old issues with men, sex and power, and as a stripper she feels in control of her body. She also met the father of her baby in the club and he is a beautiful, sweet man. Is she an exception? Probably. But I bet there are more strippers like her than you'd think.
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Old 05-13-2003, 06:34 PM   #35
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Fizzing,

Its true there is only one reason for attending a strip club vs. other forms of entertainment. I was just pointing out the fact that people have lustful thoughts all the time, not just in a strip club setting. What do you think the point of all those pictures in Pleba are?

"Men don't care if the women there are good actors or if the dancing is well choreographed, they only care if the woman looks attractive."

Well just speaking from my own experience in a dance club on the dance floor, if a girl can dance well, that is attractive.


"Besides, do you reach into the tv and grab hold of the actors there? No, yet that happens in strip clubs. Do you pay additional money to entice film actors to remove their clothes? No, but it happens in strip clubs."

Well from what I've heard about the strip clubs in my area, the strippers are allowed to touch the person, but the person cannot touch the stripper. If they do, they get thrown out. In addition, people pay to watch pay for view movies, video's all the time on TV. Then there is the internet.

"If strip clubs don't mean people are more likely to abuse women, then tell me why there is frequently an increase in sexual violence in areas where strip clubs are located."

Well first off, the area the strip club is in might be the cause of the increased violence. What is the poverty rate in the neighborhood in which the strip club is located? What is the usual crime rate?

How many problems do you hear of at strip clubs that are near or in upper middle class or rich neighborhoods?


"Wow, you must have fun watching television!"

Sometimes I do, even if its just CNN.

"Besides, your defence of strip clubs does not even take into account the experiences of the women who work there. Many women are forced into jobs such as stripping because it's the only way they can earn money to survive. Strip clubs are often horribly exploitative of the women who work there but because it's very rare for strip clubs to have union representation, women who complain about this treatment will simply be fired."

Where I live, I've heard the women make loads of money from the tips while the management only makes money at the door. I've heard many of the women own houses. From the men I know that have gone there, many are young and still live with their parents.

"Strip clubs aren't just another innocuous form of entertainment like film or television: they're about the objectification of women for men's sexual gratification and they are symptomatic of a society which consistently sees women as somehow inferior to men and existing only to provide gratification for men."

What do you think Strip Clubs with male strippers are then? Do you feel they are about the objectification of men for men and womens sexual gratification and they are symptomatic of a society which consistently sees men as somehow inferior to women and existing only to provide gratification for women? I know the comparison is not fully accurate but I think you get the point.

Also, I've heard about 10% of the people that go to the strip clubs are female lesbians. So why don't you mention men and women when talking of female strippers?
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Old 05-14-2003, 09:36 AM   #36
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If I had teenaged kids I'd probably encourage them or take them myself to a strip club just to satisfy their curiousity. Maybe. I'd think about it anyway. I'd also allow my boys to have porn magazines and put a lock on their bedroom door.
but there is a difference between you taking your child to a strip club to help him understand sexuality and a parent taking 15 varsity baseball-playing teenage boys to a strip club. I don't think they were there for the noble reasons you describe.
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Old 05-14-2003, 12:30 PM   #37
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Yes...perhaps. But I still think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. I just can't get all worked up about this kind of thing.
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:04 PM   #38
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Many women are forced into jobs such as stripping because it's the only way they can earn money to survive.
what... is mcdonalds only highering harvard grads now a days?
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:27 PM   #39
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what... is mcdonalds only highering harvard grads now a days?
McDonald's doesn't pay the bills. I've known women who have made more in a weekend than I would have all month.

I wish I could cry "exploitation" all the way to the bank...

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Old 05-14-2003, 09:38 PM   #40
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Melon,

"McDonald's doesn't pay the bills." It does in area's where sheep sometimes outnumber people.
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