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Old 04-17-2003, 01:29 PM   #16
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I hope they're able to recover some of what has been stolen. It's very sad that so much more has been destroyed and can't ever be recovered.
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Old 04-17-2003, 07:12 PM   #17
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
I hope they're able to recover some of what has been stolen. It's very sad that so much more has been destroyed and can't ever be recovered.
Isn't that the truth.......they'll never get those Korans back.
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Old 04-23-2003, 02:04 PM   #18
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verte76:

there was a interesting statement according to this from Martin Sullivan, (one of the "cultural advisors"? of G.W.B)

Quote:
Because of our failure to act (inaction?) of our Nation this tragedy was not prevented
Klaus

p.s. again retranslated from german, glad if someone could post the original quote
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Old 04-23-2003, 07:01 PM   #19
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Klaus, that's exactly what Sullivan told the press when he discussed his resignation. There was an article about the resignations from Reuters on my ISP's headlines.
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Old 04-23-2003, 09:42 PM   #20
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Klaus--Oops, that's not *exactly* what Sullivan said to the press. I think some medication I'm taking is causing brain damage. He said something to that effect, the U.S. could have prevented the destruction and didn't and that's why he resigned. He felt like it was the right thing to do. We cultural historians do love our artifacts especially if they are Sumerian/ Mesopotamian.
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Old 04-24-2003, 05:32 AM   #21
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verte: thanks! i didn't know that he resigned - thanks for that information
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:51 AM   #22
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verte: thanks! i didn't know that he resigned - thanks for that information
Actually there were two resignations. The report contained their comments to the press explaining their reasons for their resignations. They expressed their opinions that the tragedy could have been prevented, it wasn't, thus their resignations.
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Old 04-24-2003, 01:06 PM   #23
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There's a stupid article in my home newspaper today about "leftists" having fits over the artifact thefts. I wish people wouldn't politicize this. Many conservatives are upset about the disaster. Some people think *everything* is politics these days. It's not. It's life.
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Old 04-24-2003, 01:47 PM   #24
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Verte: thanks again for the info

Here's a BBC article about artifact thefts which dosn't blame "leftists"

Let's hope we don't fall back politically in the dark ages where art and education become "leftist stuff" again

Quote:
Newsman on Iraq looting charge
Items are popping up for sale on the internet
A US television news employee has been charged with smuggling artworks and monetary bonds from Iraq.


Benjamin James Johnson - an engineer for Fox news - stands accused of bringing into the US 12 paintings taken from a palace belonging to Saddam Hussein's son Uday and also of making false statements to the police.

Mr Johnson, who was embedded with US troops during the Iraq war, was arrested at Dulles International Airport near Washington. Fox says he has been fired.

A US Government official warned returning soldiers and journalists that looting would not be tolerated.

"These items are not souvenirs or 'war trophies' but stolen goods that belong to the people of Iraq," Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Gordon England said.

He was speaking at a news conference where he displayed looted objects including gold-plated weapons.

'Presents from Iraqis'

When stopped by Customs officials, Mr Johnson declared just $20 worth of cigarettes.

But a search of his luggage revealed the 12 paintings from Iraq.

Mr Johnson reportedly told the officials he had been given the paintings by Iraqi citizens, but later admitted that they had been removed from presidential palaces in Baghdad.

The paintings were part of a haul of stolen goods put on display by the US Customs Department.

Several other journalists and one American soldier are also under investigation.

US officials say the paintings themselves are not of any great value.

Online auctions

The FBI refused to say at which airport the object had been confiscated or the nature of the artefact, but customs officials across the country have been put on high alert amid suspicions that many of the stolen objects will end up on the US market.

Customs agents at a US airport believe they have seized at least one item taken from Baghdad museum, which was looted of thousands of valuable artefacts as Saddam Hussein's regime collapsed.

Many objects from Iraq, looted both at the end of the first Gulf War in 1991 and during the last, have already started turning up for sale at online auctioneers, experts say.

"You won't find the big, expensive pieces on the internet, but the smaller things that won't command as much attention," Dr Neil Brodie of the UK's Illicit Antiquities Research Centre told BBC News Online.

"It's these pieces that are much harder to track down."

Artistic co-operation

The US has come in for intense criticism from archaeologists and art historians for its failure to protect Baghdad's cultural heritage from looters when lawlessness broke out.

Three White House cultural advisers resigned in protest, and Washington subsequently announced plans to send FBI agents to join Interpol police in the recovery operation, both inside and outside Iraq.

The FBI says it will work closely with art collectors, auction houses, museum curators and online sellers to track down any Iraqi pieces put up for sale.

As well as the national museum in Baghdad, a museum in Mosul was looted and the capital's Islamic Library, which housed ancient manuscripts including one of the oldest surviving copies of the Koran, was ravaged by fire.

The UN's cultural agency Unesco has called the loss and destruction already suffered "a disaster".

PRESUMED MISSING
80,000 cuneiform tablets with world's earliest writing
Bronze figure of Akkadian king - 4,500 years old
Silver harp from ancient city of Ur - 4,000 years old
Three-foot carved Sumerian vase - 5,200 years old
Headless statue of Sumerian king Entemena - 4,600 years old
Carved sacred cup - 4,600 years old
I'm sure every honest conservative condemns this "robbery crusade" too

Klaus
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Old 04-24-2003, 05:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Verte: thanks again for the info

Here's a BBC article about artifact thefts which dosn't blame "leftists"

Let's hope we don't fall back politically in the dark ages where art and education become "leftist stuff" again



I'm sure every honest conservative condemns this "robbery crusade" too

Klaus


I hope art and education doesn't become "leftist" stuff again, either. I think this mentality is grossly unfair to conservatives. Some of the profs who taught me history were conservatives. One of these was a veteran; we even called him "Captain" rather than "Doctor" even though he had a Ph.D. I know conservatives who are talented musicians, dancers, writers, costume makers, visual artists, etc, etc. It's insulting to conservatives to assume that none of them are talented artistically or very well educated people. We know that that's garbage.
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:51 PM   #26
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i didn't want to call any conservative uneducated or without sense for art.
I just got a little angy about these traditional prejudices and i mentioned them.
I know lots of well verry well educated conservatives personally.

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Old 04-25-2003, 12:23 AM   #27
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Klaus--Oh, I know. It's just that I don't think some of these idiots who write stuff like this in the newspapers know that they are doing a terrible injustice to their own. Anti-intellectuals are very annoying people, and unfortunately some of them write for the newspapers.
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Old 04-26-2003, 03:57 PM   #28
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Boston Herald reporter Jules Crittenden declared a painting, gold-plated emblem, gun holster and knife. Crittenden is not going to be charged with smuggling, although he will have to bid goodbye to his "souvenirs" anyway.
is this true? if yes i hope they'll judge him
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Old 04-26-2003, 05:33 PM   #29
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I haven't heard anything about this. To me the important thing is getting the artifacts back. They need to confiscate all of the artifacts and send them back to Baghdad. Maybe there is a deal between the government and the people caught with looted objects. Of course I'm mad as hell at these jerks, but it might help them get the artifacts back in Baghdad.
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Old 04-29-2003, 06:49 AM   #30
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I think people like the one who brought back the 7000 years old vase shouldn't be punished, but people who were caught while smuggeling goods or while trying to sell them should get a trial at a courthouse.
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