steroids

[Irvine511]

okay, so, just for the sake of argument, amids all this Giambi confession and the need of an asterix by all of Barry Bonds' records, just how much of a problem are steroids? consider: we just learned that some 40 percent of Americans are on some kind of constant medication - the line between pharmaceuticals that actually cure illness and those that enhance our quality of life (viagra, anyone?) is getting blurrier all the time. what is health, after all, if not somewhat relative? our cultural norm is that drugs that do not harm you are perfectly legit in increasing your enjoyment of life, or enhancing your ability to perform certain tasks. Why, then, are steroids so illegitimate in sports? yes, they can harm a body, but only if taken in excess and outside a doctor's supervision. yes, it's unfair when some players use them and others don't. but the answer to that might just as well be universal steroid use as a universal ban. the notion that there is some "pure" human being out there - unaffected by the technology that now enhances our lives in so many ways - is fiction. i'm not that comfortable with a steroid free-for-all; but I'm having a hard time coming up with good arguments as to why I shouldn't be.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I guess I just think sports should still be one "pure" place, and I consider steroids to be cheating. It's not fair to have athletes working out and taking good care of themselves the "old fashioned" way losing to juiced out people.

Not to mention what steroids do to your health.

 

[Irvine511]

hey -- i agree with you. as a former swimmer, it was such a good feeling watching the US women's 4x200 relay destroy the final East German record this summer in Athens. it was like good finally vanquished evil (i.e., the clean were better than the doped).

but this is an ethical question -- where do we draw the line? why should sports performance be out of bounds for chemical enhancement, but sexual performance (again, that viagra) be in bounds?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I think that sports performance should be just that. Athletes aren't robots, but they are role models, especially for a lot of kids. I would love to have kids that are every bit as involved and passionate about sports as I was, but if every professional sport was governed by steroid use, I think it would be very sad.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

why should sports performance be out of bounds for chemical enhancement, but sexual performance (again, that viagra) be in bounds?

Cause you can't get medals, become idols/role models, or make tens of millions of dollars from sexual performance

I think if we allow steroids in sports, we may as well just create robots to replace athletes

 

[U2Kitten]

My big issue is, if they dare strip Marilyn Jones or any other recent athlete due to steriods or doping, go back to the pre-Cold War Olympics and strip every Soviet bloc athlete who used them, including the gymnasts on 'peter pan' drugs. If you're not going to do that, leave everybody alone!!

 

[Macfistowannabe]

My big issue is, if they dare strip Marilyn Jones or any other recent athlete due to steriods or doping, go back to the pre-Cold War Olympics and strip every Soviet bloc athlete who used them, including the gymnasts on 'peter pan' drugs. If you're not going to do that, leave everybody alone!!

Are you for or against steroid use? I do think that we should look at present situations rather than the past, for the sake of fairness.

 

[Irvine511]

okay, but what about tests? are the kids on ritalin at an advantage? what if i weren't ADHD, but Ritalin improved my memory and focus -- why should i not be allowed to use that on test day? when it comes to SATs, and MCATs and LSATs, the rewards for doing well are just as high stakes as olympic medals and world championships.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

okay, but what about tests? are the kids on ritalin at an advantage? what if i weren't ADHD, but Ritalin improved my memory and focus -- why should i not be allowed to use that on test day? when it comes to SATs, and MCATs and LSATs, the rewards for doing well are just as high stakes as olympic medals and world championships.

I don't know about comparing ritalin - a drug that many kids need - could equally be compared to steroids - a drug that athletes choose to use, even if they could hit home runs without them.

 

[U2Kitten]

Are you for or against steroid use? I do think that we should look at present situations rather than the past, for the sake of fairness.

It was 'for the sake of fairness' I said that. Some of those East German women in the 70's were so pumped full of steroids they looked like men and guys over here made fun of them. What I'm saying is, fair is fair, if you strip a recent athlete, strip everyone in the past too. Why should they keep their medals and not Marion Jones?

 

[Liesje]

My big issue is, if they dare strip Marilyn Jones or any other recent athlete due to steriods or doping, go back to the pre-Cold War Olympics and strip every Soviet bloc athlete who used them, including the gymnasts on 'peter pan' drugs.

Sorry, as a gymnast, I'm naturally curious. Can you elaborate on "peter-pan" drugs? One of the reasons I really like gymnastics is that steriods and performance enhancing drugs are of absolutely no use to our sport. If anything, they hinder performace. There are male gymnasts that struggle with becoming "muscle bound" without the use of steroids.

I would say there IS a difference between performance enhancing drugs and drugs like viagra because athletes CAN fairly win medals without drugs, but a lot of men CAN'T have sex without viagra. Personally, I think taking it for an extra boost or whatever is stupid. I mean, if a guy my age was doing that, it wouldn't turn me on in the slightest. Talk about low self-esteem!

 

[bw in dc]

Using steroids for athletic enhancement is akin to buying off a juror to win a case. It's the height of cheating.

I won't get into the long term health hazards, or the fact that it's an illegal substance unless prescribed, but suffice it to say that this has spilled way down into the high school ranks and polluted our teenage pool. Testing should be mandatory from 9th grade on if you want to play sports...People get athletic scholarships because they have cheated to enhance their abilities. This is patently unfair and something that our culture needs to take way, way more seriously...

 

[pwmartin]

It's all about the benjamins.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

It was 'for the sake of fairness' I said that. Some of those East German women in the 70's were so pumped full of steroids they looked like men and guys over here made fun of them. What I'm saying is, fair is fair, if you strip a recent athlete, strip everyone in the past too. Why should they keep their medals and not Marion Jones?

Ahh... so you meant that we shouldn't credit those so much in the past who have used steroids, if we can't credit those in the present? If that's what you meant, I could agree to it.

 

[Irvine511]

feels weird to argue for steroid use ... but for the sake of argument (i'm hardly endorsing this viewpoint, i'm just throwing it out there), what's the difference (and who determines the difference) between some of the stuff you can find at your local GNC and what we determine (now) to be illegal? lots of guys use Creatine to increase muscle mass, even though there are worries about it causing liver damage. why is this not a steroid, yet the stuff Bonds was on (proper nouns escape me) is deemed illegal.

are we being anti-science here? should we not embrace technology that enhances human performance? one can argue that the highly scientific drugs given to Bonds and (probably) Jones are light years safer and more scientific than what those poor East German women were injected with by their governments. the health risks are simply not the same as the once were.

we see it as perfectly justified when someone with a good natural singing voice takes pride in his performance, although we're aware that his singing has more to do with talent than with effort and training. if, however, Bono were to improve his singing by the use of a drug, Bono would be denied the same recognition (unless Bono had put a lot of effort into inventing the drug in question before testing it on himself). the point is that both hard work and natural talent are considered 'part of' Bono, while using a drug is 'artificial' enhancement because it is a form of external manipulation.

this brings us back to the same problem: once we know that Bono's 'natural talent' depends on the levels of certain chemicals in his brain, does it matter, morally, whether Bono acquired it from outside or have possessed it from birth? and, if Bono's job is to sing well on a record, just as it is Barry Bond's job to play well, why should we deny either of them the tools to perform at the highest level possible (and further justify their obscene salaries)?

 

[Irvine511]

and, since the technology used to mask steroids is so far ahead of the technology used to detect them, what's the difference anyway?

 

[U2Kitten]

Sorry, as a gymnast, I'm naturally curious. Can you elaborate on "peter-pan" drugs? One of the reasons I really like gymnastics is that steriods and performance enhancing drugs are of absolutely no use to our sport. If anything, they hinder performace. There are male gymnasts that struggle with becoming "muscle bound" without the use of steroids.

"Peter Pan" drugs are not steroids and have nothing to do with performance enhancement. They were used to temporarily stunt growth and stall naturally physical development, keeping an 18 year old the size of a 12 year old, so she could stay a bouncy little gymnast longer. Sorry I don't have a link, it's one of those many things I saw/heard/read a lot about when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's and didn't read online. It might be on there somewhere if anyone wants to google it or ask jeeves or something.

 

[Judah]

Sorry, i forget that American female track athlete's name, the one that was on 20/20 this past week and was using Balco's stuff, etc. She said the steroids, in one sense, are actually good for the athletes health...she felt stronger, less aches, less injuries, she could train more without hurting her body. Without the drugs, the type of training they do results in plenty of injuries.

I'm not advocating for or against (though i have no moral problem with humans making free choices to abuse their bodies; i have a problem with humans breaking laws and or deceiving us and how they achieved their success). But there IS a fair-enough opposite stance to the point that "steroids are bad for your health."

They're bad in some ways and, obviously, good in others (for the person using them at least).

 

[BVS]

You have to look at the legitimacy and the reason the drugs are being used.

If you can't have sex and need viagra go for it.

If you need the ritalin go for it. If you are abusing it or using it for edge they should get disciplined.

If you need steroids because you have a bad back like my grandma then use it, but if you're a healthy athlete and you are using they should get disciplined.

The difference between steroids and the stuff you can buy at the mall is that creatine and others don't have any known side effects. Also contrary to popular belief creatine does not actually alter or promote muscle growth. It's a natural chemical already found in your body that increaces short term anaerobic power.

All this being said, this is something the individuals and the sports league need to deal with and not our govenment.

 

[BVS]

She said the steroids, in one sense, are actually good for the athletes health...she felt stronger, less aches, less injuries, she could train more without hurting her body. Without the drugs, the type of training they do results in plenty of injuries.

I heard cocaine does the same thing.

 

[U2Kitten]

Ahh... so you meant that we shouldn't credit those so much in the past who have used steroids, if we can't credit those in the present? If that's what you meant, I could agree to it.

I'm saying make them all EQUAL!!!!!!!!!!! All or nothing. Strip them all, or let them all go. No persecuting some and not others.

 

[Rinn]

Alistar Lynch is a AFL footballer who has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, his talent is such that his team really wants to keep him so with the consent of the AFL he is allowed to used steriods under very strick conditions. This enables him to play matches every week without suffering the effects of his illness afterwards (mainly the horrible feeling of weakness and lowered brain speed, which I can tell you are not fun). And even after this effort he can't play games where he has to travel too much.

Under such circumstances as this the use of steriods, in my opinion, is acceptable. They don't put him ahead of the rest of the field and they are used under a lot of supervision by consent of the AFL.

In the cases where athletes are well there is absolutely no reason why they should be allowed to take steroids to enhance their performance. It is unfair and dishonest.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

In the cases where athletes are well there is absolutely no reason why they should be allowed to take steroids to enhance their performance. It is unfair and dishonest.

Right on, Rinn.

 

[Liesje]

Alistar Lynch is a AFL footballer who has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, his talent is such that his team really wants to keep him so with the consent of the AFL he is allowed to used steriods under very strick conditions. This enables him to play matches every week without suffering the effects of his illness afterwards (mainly the horrible feeling of weakness and lowered brain speed, which I can tell you are not fun). And even after this effort he can't play games where he has to travel too much.

Under such circumstances as this the use of steriods, in my opinion, is acceptable. They don't put him ahead of the rest of the field and they are used under a lot of supervision by consent of the AFL.

In the cases where athletes are well there is absolutely no reason why they should be allowed to take steroids to enhance their performance. It is unfair and dishonest.

The one problem I have with this is that if steriods are needed for an individual to succeed in sport, maybe that's because that individual simply does not have the physical capacity to participate. It's no longer and issue of fairness but of health. If someone I was close to wanted to participate in a sport at a high level but had to take steriods just to be physically able to do so (not as a bonus), I would be really scared b/c I just don't see how that is healthy.

 

[Liesje]

I'm saying make them all EQUAL!!!!!!!!!!! All or nothing. Strip them all, or let them all go. No persecuting some and not others.

It's pretty difficult to take away someone's gold medal for any reason unless there's a drug test that the athlete obviously failed. I'm guessing they didn't have/didn't do these tests back in the day. Not to mention, with the exception of the last decade, the Olympics have been so tainted by politics and drugs, it would be a huge mess to go back and re-evaluate everything. This is especially true for gymnastics. The results from the Olympics of the 60s-80s are laughable. We've got scores being changed after a certain tank invaded a certain city, scores being withheld until a certain gymnast of a certain other nation competed and was evaluated.....

 

[verte76]

Hey, I remember, ever so slightly, those East German women who took the steroids and won those medals and set the records. It's a little late to pull the plug on their medals, but it can always be noted that they took the damn things.

 

[verte76]

It's pretty difficult to take away someone's gold medal for any reason unless there's a drug test that the athlete obviously failed. I'm guessing they didn't have/didn't do these tests back in the day. Not to mention, with the exception of the last decade, the Olympics have been so tainted by politics and drugs, it would be a huge mess to go back and re-evaluate everything. This is especially true for gymnastics. The results from the Olympics of the 60s-80s are laughable. We've got scores being changed after a certain tank invaded a certain city, scores being withheld until a certain gymnast of a certain other nation competed and was evaluated.....

Oh, yes. Possibly the most infamous incident of this took place in Moscow in the 1980 Olympics, when they placed some Soviet gymnast ahead of Nadia Comanici so she and not Nadia could get the gold medal in the gymnastics all-around competition. The whole bloody thing was politics, not sports.

 

[U2Kitten]

Yes, the politics in sports would have been laughable if not so infuriating. It was so wrong and unfair to the athletes. Nadia did not do so well in 1980 as she did in 1976 because she was 18 and had grown up while some of the Russian girls were probably on Peter Pans There was also 'tokenism' in some sports, like a Soviet bloc athlete would win the gold one year, so a western athlete would get to win the next time, then the next time a Soviet, and so on. But the worst thing was probably the ice skating and how the Russians were cheated in favor of for so many years!

 

[verte76]

Don't get me started on figure skating politics. Sheesh. I even had a UFO joke story about the ISU. The ISU is scandalously dishonest and political as hell.

 

[Liesje]

Yes, the politics in sports would have been laughable if not so infuriating. It was so wrong and unfair to the athletes. Nadia did not do so well in 1980 as she did in 1976 because she was 18 and had grown up while some of the Russian girls were probably on Peter Pans T

I've never been a huge fan of Soviet gymnastics so I don't know what history they have with drug use, but I can say with certainty that these days, there is no drug out there that has the ability to give a gymnast an edge.

Nadia actually did marvelously well in 1980 and only got silver instead of gold because they waited to score her routine until they had scored Davydova's and then gave Nadia a slightly lower score. Nadia was absolutely in her top physical shape in 1980. She never looked and moved better before or after that time.

Sorry, I gotta defend my girl! Nadia has been my absolute favorite person ever since I was 8 and I've recently taken over ownership of nadiacomaneci.com with her manager's approval.