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Old 12-08-2004, 01:08 PM   #16
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and, since the technology used to mask steroids is so far ahead of the technology used to detect them, what's the difference anyway?
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Old 12-08-2004, 01:44 PM   #17
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Sorry, as a gymnast, I'm naturally curious. Can you elaborate on "peter-pan" drugs? One of the reasons I really like gymnastics is that steriods and performance enhancing drugs are of absolutely no use to our sport. If anything, they hinder performace. There are male gymnasts that struggle with becoming "muscle bound" without the use of steroids.
"Peter Pan" drugs are not steroids and have nothing to do with performance enhancement. They were used to temporarily stunt growth and stall naturally physical development, keeping an 18 year old the size of a 12 year old, so she could stay a bouncy little gymnast longer. Sorry I don't have a link, it's one of those many things I saw/heard/read a lot about when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's and didn't read online. It might be on there somewhere if anyone wants to google it or ask jeeves or something.
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Old 12-08-2004, 01:45 PM   #18
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Sorry, i forget that American female track athlete's name, the one that was on 20/20 this past week and was using Balco's stuff, etc. She said the steroids, in one sense, are actually good for the athletes health...she felt stronger, less aches, less injuries, she could train more without hurting her body. Without the drugs, the type of training they do results in plenty of injuries.

I'm not advocating for or against (though i have no moral problem with humans making free choices to abuse their bodies; i have a problem with humans breaking laws and or deceiving us and how they achieved their success). But there IS a fair-enough opposite stance to the point that "steroids are bad for your health."

They're bad in some ways and, obviously, good in others (for the person using them at least).
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Old 12-08-2004, 01:53 PM   #19
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You have to look at the legitimacy and the reason the drugs are being used.

If you can't have sex and need viagra go for it.

If you need the ritalin go for it. If you are abusing it or using it for edge they should get disciplined.

If you need steroids because you have a bad back like my grandma then use it, but if you're a healthy athlete and you are using they should get disciplined.

The difference between steroids and the stuff you can buy at the mall is that creatine and others don't have any known side effects. Also contrary to popular belief creatine does not actually alter or promote muscle growth. It's a natural chemical already found in your body that increaces short term anaerobic power.

All this being said, this is something the individuals and the sports league need to deal with and not our govenment.
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Old 12-08-2004, 01:55 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Judah
She said the steroids, in one sense, are actually good for the athletes health...she felt stronger, less aches, less injuries, she could train more without hurting her body. Without the drugs, the type of training they do results in plenty of injuries.
I heard cocaine does the same thing.
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Old 12-08-2004, 01:57 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Ahh... so you meant that we shouldn't credit those so much in the past who have used steroids, if we can't credit those in the present? If that's what you meant, I could agree to it.
I'm saying make them all EQUAL!!!!!!!!!!! All or nothing. Strip them all, or let them all go. No persecuting some and not others.
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Old 12-08-2004, 02:59 PM   #22
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Alistar Lynch is a AFL footballer who has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, his talent is such that his team really wants to keep him so with the consent of the AFL he is allowed to used steriods under very strick conditions. This enables him to play matches every week without suffering the effects of his illness afterwards (mainly the horrible feeling of weakness and lowered brain speed, which I can tell you are not fun). And even after this effort he can't play games where he has to travel too much.

Under such circumstances as this the use of steriods, in my opinion, is acceptable. They don't put him ahead of the rest of the field and they are used under a lot of supervision by consent of the AFL.

In the cases where athletes are well there is absolutely no reason why they should be allowed to take steroids to enhance their performance. It is unfair and dishonest.
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Old 12-08-2004, 03:00 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Rinn
In the cases where athletes are well there is absolutely no reason why they should be allowed to take steroids to enhance their performance. It is unfair and dishonest.
Right on, Rinn.
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Old 12-08-2004, 03:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rinn
Alistar Lynch is a AFL footballer who has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, his talent is such that his team really wants to keep him so with the consent of the AFL he is allowed to used steriods under very strick conditions. This enables him to play matches every week without suffering the effects of his illness afterwards (mainly the horrible feeling of weakness and lowered brain speed, which I can tell you are not fun). And even after this effort he can't play games where he has to travel too much.

Under such circumstances as this the use of steriods, in my opinion, is acceptable. They don't put him ahead of the rest of the field and they are used under a lot of supervision by consent of the AFL.

In the cases where athletes are well there is absolutely no reason why they should be allowed to take steroids to enhance their performance. It is unfair and dishonest.
The one problem I have with this is that if steriods are needed for an individual to succeed in sport, maybe that's because that individual simply does not have the physical capacity to participate. It's no longer and issue of fairness but of health. If someone I was close to wanted to participate in a sport at a high level but had to take steriods just to be physically able to do so (not as a bonus), I would be really scared b/c I just don't see how that is healthy.
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Old 12-08-2004, 03:53 PM   #25
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


I'm saying make them all EQUAL!!!!!!!!!!! All or nothing. Strip them all, or let them all go. No persecuting some and not others.
It's pretty difficult to take away someone's gold medal for any reason unless there's a drug test that the athlete obviously failed. I'm guessing they didn't have/didn't do these tests back in the day. Not to mention, with the exception of the last decade, the Olympics have been so tainted by politics and drugs, it would be a huge mess to go back and re-evaluate everything. This is especially true for gymnastics. The results from the Olympics of the 60s-80s are laughable. We've got scores being changed after a certain tank invaded a certain city, scores being withheld until a certain gymnast of a certain other nation competed and was evaluated.....
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Old 12-08-2004, 03:59 PM   #26
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Hey, I remember, ever so slightly, those East German women who took the steroids and won those medals and set the records. It's a little late to pull the plug on their medals, but it can always be noted that they took the damn things.
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Old 12-08-2004, 04:05 PM   #27
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


It's pretty difficult to take away someone's gold medal for any reason unless there's a drug test that the athlete obviously failed. I'm guessing they didn't have/didn't do these tests back in the day. Not to mention, with the exception of the last decade, the Olympics have been so tainted by politics and drugs, it would be a huge mess to go back and re-evaluate everything. This is especially true for gymnastics. The results from the Olympics of the 60s-80s are laughable. We've got scores being changed after a certain tank invaded a certain city, scores being withheld until a certain gymnast of a certain other nation competed and was evaluated.....
Oh, yes. Possibly the most infamous incident of this took place in Moscow in the 1980 Olympics, when they placed some Soviet gymnast ahead of Nadia Comanici so she and not Nadia could get the gold medal in the gymnastics all-around competition. The whole bloody thing was politics, not sports.
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:05 PM   #28
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Yes, the politics in sports would have been laughable if not so infuriating. It was so wrong and unfair to the athletes. Nadia did not do so well in 1980 as she did in 1976 because she was 18 and had grown up while some of the Russian girls were probably on Peter Pans There was also 'tokenism' in some sports, like a Soviet bloc athlete would win the gold one year, so a western athlete would get to win the next time, then the next time a Soviet, and so on. But the worst thing was probably the ice skating and how the Russians were cheated in favor of for so many years!
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:44 PM   #29
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Don't get me started on figure skating politics. Sheesh. I even had a UFO joke story about the ISU. The ISU is scandalously dishonest and political as hell.
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:12 PM   #30
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Originally posted by U2Kitten
Yes, the politics in sports would have been laughable if not so infuriating. It was so wrong and unfair to the athletes. Nadia did not do so well in 1980 as she did in 1976 because she was 18 and had grown up while some of the Russian girls were probably on Peter Pans T
I've never been a huge fan of Soviet gymnastics so I don't know what history they have with drug use, but I can say with certainty that these days, there is no drug out there that has the ability to give a gymnast an edge.

Nadia actually did marvelously well in 1980 and only got silver instead of gold because they waited to score her routine until they had scored Davydova's and then gave Nadia a slightly lower score. Nadia was absolutely in her top physical shape in 1980. She never looked and moved better before or after that time.

Sorry, I gotta defend my girl! Nadia has been my absolute favorite person ever since I was 8 and I've recently taken over ownership of nadiacomaneci.com with her manager's approval.
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