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Old 08-17-2001, 12:34 PM   #1
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step in the right direction!.....what do you think?

my previous post about teachers "explain to me why!!" still stands but heres some good news for our kindergarden-grade8 students!

TORONTO (Reuters) - Ontario kindergarten students may read next year about the reality of having two dads.
The union representing elementary teachers in Ontario's public school system voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday in favor of a motion to lobby school boards to buy storybooks that include gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender characters, for pupils from kindergarten to Grade 8.

Phyllis Benedict, president of the Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario, said she will push the Ontario government and regional school boards to fund gay material, noting that some teachers already use gay storybooks.

"I used a picture book called "My Two Dads". It was about a child and a family that had two fathers. It was beautifully illustrated and done, and it dealt with the issue with sensitivity," Benedict said.

The motion to promote the new schoolbooks was put forward by the union's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender members committee. Leona Laird, head of the committee, said the books would help children who may be stigmatized because they come from families with gay or lesbian parents.

"We're not asking for a whole curriculum program," Laird said. "We're asking for some books, when there's some children who don't feel welcome in their classroom, that they can go and say 'Hey, I'm not different'."

The motion does not mean gay books will automatically fill bookshelves in Ontario's classrooms in September since it's up to individual school boards to decide which materials to fund.

The union's motion comes in marked contrast to a recent decision by a school board in the west coast province of British Columbia, which banned three books used to introduce children to families involving same-sex couples. The board argued the books were not appropriate for kindergarten.

http://home-news.excite.ca/news/r/01...anada-gays-col


do you think it's a good thing that they voted for funding for those books, i can tell you i think its great.

it's not the first Canadian step in the right direction, we have such things like "Queer Tv" and now gay/lesbian books in schools..
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Old 08-17-2001, 01:43 PM   #2
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That is ridiculous having kindergarten kids learn about those things, it is ridiculous talking to them about sex in general. Let them have some kind of childhood first before bringing up such subjects like that. Those school systems should find a different grade, a much higher up grade before talking about such things.

~rougerum
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Old 08-17-2001, 01:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Henry Rollins:
That is ridiculous having kindergarten kids learn about those things, it is ridiculous talking to them about sex in general. Let them have some kind of childhood first before bringing up such subjects like that. Those school systems should find a different grade, a much higher up grade before talking about such things.
~rougerum
I agree, rougerum!

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Old 08-17-2001, 04:35 PM   #4
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well thats obviouse, but what these teachers are talking about are the kindergardeners who have two same sex parents, this is just an atempt to make those children not feel like they are different from the rest. To "fit in" with the rest of their chums.
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Old 08-17-2001, 05:59 PM   #5
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I think the parents need to discuss that with the children in private and it could be dicussed in private after class or something with the teacher but doing the above will still put those ideas in the heads of all the rest of the kids in the class and so it should be kept private and the child so be told to ignore this fact of his life and concentrate on having fun. I think it is a private matter only for kids at that age.

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Old 08-18-2001, 01:36 AM   #6
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I totally agree with rougerm. This are kids aged 5-11. They cant fully comprehend gay and lesbian relationships. If a child was seen reading a book about gay parents then that would make him a target. Plain and simple. That kid would be picked on to death, he then would resent him parent. This is very much a private and a family issue. To bring this into the classroom is a problem waiting to happen. Teachers always try to stop kids from being made fun of but it always happens and these kids would be walking around with a bullseye on their back for bully's!

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Old 08-18-2001, 10:43 AM   #7
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I don't understand this. In the village from which I reside, no one has two papas. It is Halpick and Henneh, not Halpick and Jilo. Jilo has been my good friend for many years. He would not stand being married to me. There is something not natural about that. As my mother used to say "when the day is at midpoint, you know it is time to watch the skies for a sign of the birds returning from their moorings".
Milk of kindness to all,
Halpick Neftin
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Old 08-18-2001, 11:54 AM   #8
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Halpick Neftin, good to see you again! Where have you been lately? Did you and Jilo get everything worked out with the magistrates?

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Old 08-18-2001, 12:26 PM   #9
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Originally posted by U2Bama:
Halpick Neftin, good to see you again! Where have you been lately? Did you and Jilo get everything worked out with the magistrates?
~U2Alabama
Oh yes, finally, but no thanks to Jilo. He fell asleep while the head magistrate was talking. Magistrates don't like that. They accept it as a sign of disrespect. I don't blame them for feeling this way. Once, Henneh fell asleep while I was reading the scriptures at church. It upset me, so I wouldn't play Monopoly with her for a week.
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Old 08-19-2001, 06:32 AM   #10
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Well, I'm sure most of you here expect exactly what kind of answer I'm going to give to this topic...but you're wrong.

Personally, I'm distressed over the constant sex that is beaten over everyone's heads in schools--i.e., sex education--and that goes for both heterosexuals and homosexuals, Kindergarteners and high schoolers. Perhaps this is the 13 years of Catholic schools coming out of me, but I used to think that schools were meant to teach you the necessities of life--reading, English (or substitute local language here), math, science, history, etc.--but I just find schools today to be propaganda grounds, where one interest group tries to persuade the younger generations to their personal belief systems. And, of course, this goes both ways. I find myself disgusted over some districts' constant desire to put religion into public education, as it is the same principle on propaganda, not to mention how some districts have had the audacity to eliminate evolution in science education--you may not believe it, but there are many theories in science you are taught that are both obsolete and current.

Overall, I don't think that those books are really appropriate for the Kindergarten level, unless the issue becomes imperative--i.e., some child has same-sex parents and the other kids are showing obvious intolerance or curiousity. However, other than that, the issue should be brought up later, just to allow the kids to grow up before having to know about the world. What I would give to be 5 and ignorant all over again...

But, the reality is that this issue should be brought up sooner or later. While many teachers may be ignorant about the subject, it's no secret that kids grow up thinking it's okay to crack constant homophobic jokes. You can always disagree with something, but someone needs to teach people to either tolerate or to keep their prejudices to themselves. The rest of the world has to do that.

Oh and Halpick...nice to see you back, but watch yourself. There's something not natural about a 16th century village stereotype talking on an internet U2 forum either, but you don't see me complaining.

Melon

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Old 08-19-2001, 02:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Oh and Halpick...nice to see you back, but watch yourself. There's something not natural about a 16th century village stereotype talking on an internet U2 forum either, but you don't see me complaining.
Melon

Yes, Halpick. Nice to see you back.
Melon, I have a question for you. Why did you tell Halpick to "watch himself"? Was that a threat? Is he not allowed to express his views? This post asked for opinions, and he gave it.
And by the way, he's right about a child having 2 dads not being "natural". God provided a way whereby a man and a woman have babies. That is what is natural. 2 men or 2 women can't have babies. That is unnatural. It is simply not naturl for a child to have 2 men as parents.
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Old 08-19-2001, 10:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:

Personally, I'm distressed over the constant sex that is beaten over everyone's heads in schools--i.e., sex education--and that goes for both heterosexuals and homosexuals, Kindergarteners and high schoolers. Perhaps this is the 13 years of Catholic schools coming out of me, but I used to think that schools were meant to teach you the necessities of life--reading, English (or substitute local language here), math, science, history, etc
What!!!
Are you crazy?
Sex education shouldnt be taught? I dont care where you live there are parents that dont talk to their kids about sex. Plain and simple. Schools are the next best thing. If you have the right teacher teaching that class it can become a very informative class. Sez education is just as important as any other class. Because if you dont know about sex and the methods of birth control and such then you might become pregnant or have a partner that is pregnant and all those other subjects will have no baring on your life!!!

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Old 08-20-2001, 03:56 AM   #13
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I actually think sex education is a necessity in high school, but it shouldn't be just sex education, it should be that with economics too. It should basically be a class that is going to scare the shit out of kids when they begin having sex when they are still young. It will show the consequences of having a baby when still a teenager and how chances are they are going to live in poverty. It will be a basic beating down of all the worst things that come with actions, telling the kids their life is going to be hard and tough when doing such things and that are likely not to have such a great job and they prolly will not be able to have as much free time as they would prefer and they aren't going to live in the nicest house. It will be a basic beating down of those facts and then it will move on to all the diseases that they can get from having sex and how kids aren't invincible and that 65 million americans do have STD's and it isn't something just made up.

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Old 08-20-2001, 06:53 AM   #14
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I just want to observe 2 things. It didnt sound as though melon is against sex education in its proper age group. He did make a general statement, but it seemed more directed at the way it is currently taught. I wont go on further as each country has different sex education curriculum. But sex is an issue for teenagers onward, not 5-6 year olds who are only interested in tonka trucks and painting.
Also, I dont think anyone was arguing that science and nature aren't able to allow same sex folks to produce children. It is however possible for same sex couples to be parents. How good they will be remains with the individual couples discretion and abilities as parents in general.

All in all though, it is probably better to instill in children that the family unit can consist of any number of people and genders. Children wont realise they are different until some cruel peer points out that they are different. And when that happens, the parents must be there to handle that obstacle. Same sex parents will be aware that the issue will eventually arise, and therefore plan for that. I believe it is a primamry role for the parents, and a supporting one for teachers.
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Old 08-20-2001, 08:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Yes, Halpick. Nice to see you back.
Melon, I have a question for you. Why did you tell Halpick to "watch himself"? Was that a threat? Is he not allowed to express his views? This post asked for opinions, and he gave it.
Let me put this simply. I think he's a troll of a regular on this forum. I don't take kindly to trolls.

Quote:
And by the way, he's right about a child having 2 dads not being "natural". God provided a way whereby a man and a woman have babies. That is what is natural. 2 men or 2 women can't have babies. That is unnatural. It is simply not naturl for a child to have 2 men as parents.
I do love it when people define what is 'natural' to me. While God did predefine a structure for the animal kingdom--i.e., that does include humans--he, in His infinite wisdom, gave us the power to transcend banal nature. In fact, that seems to be the overall theme of Christianity for the last two millennia; but, then when convenient, we are then told to be limited to our anatomy.

So you want to play the "nature game"? Then we should be bisexual. Anthropology has determined that, in studying cultures that have no cultural taboos on sexuality (unlike Western Christian culture that has thousands of taboos), man is bisexual by nature. It is their belief that exclusive sexuality on both ends is a cultural construct. It is disappointing that man limits what God designed.

Melon

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