Stem Cell Research. The Real Deal and the Hype. - Page 9 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-04-2004, 02:43 PM   #121
Creator of the Blue Crack
 
Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,008
Local Time: 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
no most of the proponents of e cell research are in favor of cloning embryos.

thats the playing god part and the master race connection.
maybe a leap i dunno.

its scary stuff.

im saying ppl who want to clone remind me of the master race folk that we had to knock out about 65 yrs ago
thats all.
it's preceptious.

and cloned animals havn't faired to well, how could cloned embrionic cells really help us?

where's Dolly the cloned sheep these days?

just asking everybody to think.

thats all.

peace,


db9
Diamond... Dolly wasnt cloned from embrionic cells. You really should educate yourself more on the issues you talk about instead of just throwing out buzz words and making incredibly loose connections.

On the topic of human cloning/master race... cloning won't be what creates a 'master race', genetic engineering will - and as far as I know, there arent any laws on that yet. The reality is, many people while pregnant are already informed of genetic or physical problems with an unborn child. Many decide to terminate their pregnancy to avoid having a baby born with disease or defects... now that is playing God isn't it? We're taking a detour from 'natural selection'. And what about all the couples who cant conceive naturally, yet use medical technology to become pregnant? That's 'playing God' too isnt it?

Mmmm... actually... I've got a personal question for you Diamond...
Didnt you recently have heart problems? Didn't the doctors 'play god' to save your life?

I've been on the ER table before, after falling off a cliff a decade ago, and I damn well know that if it wasnt for medical technology (playing god) I'd either be dead, or severely screwed up now.
__________________

__________________
I created this place. I hyped a band.
Now I own an ad agency. We hype brands.
All roads for me lead back to U2. Ain't it grand.
FB me. IG me. Tweet me.
Elvis is offline  
Old 11-04-2004, 05:05 PM   #122
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
no most of the proponents of e cell research are in favor of cloning embryos.

You are out of your bloody mind if you really believe that.

But thank you for speaking up on behalf of the scientific community you have nothing to do with.

I'm sorry diamond, but your knowledge of molecular biology is completely lacking. It is in fact, absent. You cannot rationally discuss this topic because you simply do not know enough (or anything beyond the jingoism) about science or research. That is painfully evident in every single post you've made here, and if you really want to participate in a meaningful debate on this research, I recommend a degree or two first in the field.
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 11-04-2004, 09:11 PM   #123
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis


Diamond... Dolly wasnt cloned from embrionic cells.

On the topic of human cloning/master race... cloning won't be what creates a 'master race', genetic engineering will -


Mmmm... actually... I've got a personal question for you Diamond...
Didnt you recently have heart problems? Didn't the doctors 'play god' to save your life?

I've been on the ER table before, after falling off a cliff a decade ago, and I damn well know that if it wasnt for medical technology (playing god) I'd either be dead, or severely screwed up now.
Joel,
I never said Dolly was cloned from embrionic cells.
I said only Dolly was cloned..
Researcers want to start cloning embryos now for e-cell research.
Keeping things in context w/a cloned sheep dying..how will cloned cells from cloned embryos provide anything for better for us humans?
After decades of tests of e-cells there has not been any success.
Let alone clone e-stem cells.
Its that simple.

My contention is that the Germans woulda love to have cloned if they had the knowledge to help facilitate their master race agenda. I do not think that's a leap.
Thankfully they didn't.

The Drs take an oath to save life, this is why they helped me Joel plus they liked my dynamic health insurance plan.

Glad you survived your cliff fall.
scary stuff.

db9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 11-04-2004, 09:15 PM   #124
Creator of the Blue Crack
 
Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,008
Local Time: 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Joel,
I never said Dolly was cloned from embrionic cells.
I said only Dolly was cloned..
Researcers want to start cloning embryos now for e-cell research.
Keeping things in context w/a cloned sheep dying..how will cloned cells from cloned embryos provide anything for better for us humans?
After decades of tests of e-cells there has not been any success.
Let alone clone e-stem cells.
Its that simple.

My contention is that the Germans woulda love to have cloned if they had the knowledge to help facilitate their master race agenda. I do not think that's a leap.
Thankfully they didn't.

The Drs take an oath to save life, this is why they helped me Joel plus they liked my dynamic health insurance plan.

Glad you survived your cliff fall.
scary stuff.

db9

Dave,

Despite your obvious lack of KNOWledge on the e-stem cell topic...

Would you then suggest to scientists to stop trying to find a cure for AIDS... since they havent found one in the last 20 yrs?

Your reasoning and assumptions for things are really ... uhm... lacking in substance.
__________________
I created this place. I hyped a band.
Now I own an ad agency. We hype brands.
All roads for me lead back to U2. Ain't it grand.
FB me. IG me. Tweet me.
Elvis is offline  
Old 11-04-2004, 09:20 PM   #125
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


You are out of your bloody mind if you really believe that.

But thank you for speaking up on behalf of the scientific community you have nothing to do with.

.
Anitram,
I know a great many people and have consumed a great deal of literature.
My bro in law is an Omptholmologist and I have alot of Dr clients that work at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale Az.
Surely you Canadians have heard of this Medical facility?
I possess a decent IQ of 127.

I also have a value system.

Our value systems may disagree but I promise not to denigrate yours here.

take care,
db9

ive already won this debate on style points alone.
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 11-04-2004, 11:12 PM   #126
Creator of the Blue Crack
 
Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,008
Local Time: 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Anitram,
I know a great many people and have consumed a great deal of literature.
My bro in law is an Omptholmologist and I have alot of Dr clients that work at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale Az.
Surely you Canadians have heard of this Medical facility?
I possess a decent IQ of 127.

I also have a value system.

Our value systems may disagree but I promise not to denigrate yours here.

take care,
db9

ive already won this debate on style points alone.

Dave...

I know people with higher IQs... but at times I swear I cant even tell by some of the stupid things they say And as for your Dr clients... Dave... I hate to inform you, but intelligence and knowledge don't come by osmosis.
__________________
I created this place. I hyped a band.
Now I own an ad agency. We hype brands.
All roads for me lead back to U2. Ain't it grand.
FB me. IG me. Tweet me.
Elvis is offline  
Old 11-04-2004, 11:25 PM   #127
New Yorker
 
AvsGirl41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,948
Local Time: 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by IndyGoGirl
a creepy aspect of this is that I see poor women selling their harvested eggs for profit for research.
Women already do sell them. I hear the ads on the radio all the time. Generally, I imagine they are for infertile couples or something, but it's not very specific.

As Elvis pointed out, what's the difference between that and men selling their sperm?

And is it really anyone's business what a woman does with her cells? They're mine, if I really want to sell or donate them, what is it to anyone else? Except for a handful, they are all wasted anyway.
__________________
AvsGirl41 is offline  
Old 11-04-2004, 11:42 PM   #128
The Fly
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 31
Local Time: 06:59 AM
everyone's favorite trial lawyer on the campaign trail :
Quote:
EDWARDS: Christopher Reeve just passed away, and America just lost a great champion for this cause, somebody who was a powerful voice for the need to do stem cell research and change the lives of people like him, who have gone through a tragedy. Well, if we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk again.
Because remember, when Edwards gets into office, people's spinal cords are going to magically regenerate


I still fall asleep in bed laughing about his BS, it's no wonder he made $ 70 million in the courtroom, anyone who can stand up and say that quoted-paragraph above with a straight face deserves that money
__________________
GOP_Catholic is offline  
Old 11-05-2004, 04:09 AM   #129
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41


Women already do sell them. I hear the ads on the radio all the time. Generally, I imagine they are for infertile couples or something, but it's not very specific.
There's a big difference between donating a few eggs to an infertile friend or family member and selling them large scale on the black market for scientific research.

Quote:
As Elvis pointed out, what's the difference between that and men selling their sperm?
BIG difference. Men just whack in a jar, and get their jollies doing it. Women have to undergo a surgical procedure where her body is cut open. She is also given hormones first to stimulate ovulation since only one egg is generally released each month and many more would be needed.

Quote:
And is it really anyone's business what a woman does with her cells? They're mine, if I really want to sell or donate them, what is it to anyone else?
Well, all the 'women's rights' people who are always so worried about womens' health should consider the dangers of these frivilous and likely repeated invasive procedures and repeat hormone injections to the woman and her body!
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 11-05-2004, 04:15 AM   #130
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 07:59 AM

Isn’t it a woman’s right to choose whether they want to go through this?
__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 11-05-2004, 04:18 AM   #131
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
Isn’t it a woman’s right to choose whether they want to go through this?
Don't you 'right to choose' people who are so concerned about womens' health see this as a potential epidemic and danger? It's sick! It will be the POOR woman who does this for profit, and her health is likely to suffer for it. After repeat procedures, her health and her fertility will be damaged, and if she's a poor street person she will likely suffer infections because she will be unable to care for herself properly post op and could actually die. I can't believe there is no concern for this. If this research is legal, there WILL be a market for eggs and they WILL come from the poorest and most vulnerable of women. Where are the womens' advocates now? I see what Diamond means, it's like Frankenstein or something.
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 11-05-2004, 04:24 AM   #132
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 07:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
It will be the POOR woman who does this for profit, and her health is likely to suffer for it.
That's a good point, I haven't thought about this. I guess it is in line with people selling organs and blood on the black market.
__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 11-05-2004, 04:27 AM   #133
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

I possess a decent IQ of 127.
What has IQ got to do with anything?

You can have an IQ of 180, be working in scientific research and know absolutely NOTHING about English literature. I'm saying you do not have the background necessary to debate this on a scientific basis, not even close.

Also, your "witty" jabs at Canada are old. I'd hoped that over the last several years, you would have picked up a new schtick.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 11-05-2004, 04:55 AM   #134
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 04:59 PM
Now anitram, I am sure that you have a greater insight into this, as a form of treatment for various diseases within general population it would not be feesible to gather the required quantities by harvesting spare IVF embryo's or have donors. There is a big difference between using particular cell lines to identify and research, to increase our understanding and create application - and having a supermassive strange new world type system.

The issue of cloning, now that would be therapeutic cloning to provide a larger source of cells. This is different from reproductive cloning - there should be a distinction.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:54 AM   #135
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis



Dave,

Despite your obvious lack of KNOWledge on the e-stem cell topic...

Would you then suggest to scientists to stop trying to find a cure for AIDS... .
Joel,
my point is if AIDS researchers are wanting to harvest embryos i would have a problem w that, the same way PETA ppl have a problem w scientists doing unseemly things to animals in medical research.


anitram,
in saying i have read literature, you assumed English literature, i have read medical literature.

re IQs i don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to have a set of morals or a value system.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

anyway folks, have to pack, heading west to the coast.

db9
__________________

__________________
diamond is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com